Daytime running lights

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Camar068

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I got some relays from some equipment that was removed from service here in the hospital. Sucks they are SPST, but we'll live....they were free.

Anyway, do ya'll see an issue with what I've drawn up to have daytime running lights? The low beam and ACC signals will be isolated due to using a separate relay on each.

I didn't draw in the high beam, basically another ckt for high beam. Total of 3 relays per side. I could probably get away with 3 relays total, but I plan on wiring this in such a way that if there is a problem with the ckt, you could plug the original wiring back to the headlights directly.

Thanks In Advance

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Daveo91Burb

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I got some relays from some equipment that was removed from service here in the hospital. Sucks they are SPST, but we'll live....they were free.

Anyway, do ya'll see an issue with what I've drawn up to have daytime running lights? The low beam and ACC signals will be isolated due to using a separate relay on each.

I didn't draw in the high beam, basically another ckt for high beam. Total of 3 relays per side. I could probably get away with 3 relays total, but I plan on wiring this in such a way that if there is a problem with the ckt, you could plug the original wiring back to the headlights directly.

Seems like a good plan to me. I'm no expert, but I have been playing with relays a good bit lately. Low beams on with key in RUN or ACC; OR headlight switch on, dimmer on low; OR both. High beams AND low beams on with key in ACC or RUN AND Headlight switch on and dimmer on high.

Funny you should post this as I was just thinking about this scenario today. I want to convert my 91 quad headlights to full relay operation, with low beams on when high beams on. Your DRL idea solves the problem of how to get the low beams on when high beams on without using diodes. (I think without a diode, it would work in reverse with high beams coming on whenever low beams on). Thanks! And I'd get DRLs to boot.

Question: what would SPDT relays do for you? I'm guessing there's a way to use the same relay for high and low? But I'm not really seeing it yet.... Reason I ask is I was rummaging for something else tonight and ran across these dudes, from my '90 TBI parts rig:

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On the '90, one was for the TH400, the other for the TBI fuel pump. (my '91 with 4L80e has only one for the TBI). I think these are SPDT relays vs. SPST. Anyone know the amperage rating of these? They should be robust enough for headlights?
 

smoothandlow84

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Im using leds as drl's. ..far less amperage draw. My quad lights are on seperate light switches so now when the high beams are on...All four headlights are illuminated. The p.o. managed to break the highbeam switch mechanism that runs down the tilt column...so a seperate switch was installed just below the main headlight switch.
 

theblindchicken

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Looks like it'd work to me. Only thing is that you'd be feeding power through two relays at the same time when you flip the headlight switch. Also, you'd never be able to turn off the low beams whether your highs are on, warming the truck up, or kicking back listening to the radio out on the trail.

If you're cool with that, then it'll work. But if you wanted them to turn off like they do for the GMT400's, you should add in a switched ground that will be normally closed and open when you engage the parking brake.
 

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I was thinking to use the oil pressure switch to switch the drl on, or fuel pump feed on tbi trucks
 

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You could also use the park/neutral safty switch to turn them on whenever it is out of park. Control the relay with that and use diodes to prvent a backfeed.
 

Camar068

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Question: what would SPDT relays do for you?
I have to start over, the SPST relays are solid state and rated for AC output only. They could work, but I would only increase from the existing 10.75V to 11.5V at the bulb. LOL can't tell ya how bummed I was. It ain't free no more!

I will be getting a 10 pack off amazon for this project. I'd order the $25 kit and call it done, but I've got the male connectors ($10) on order already. Plus I really want to be able to have that "fail safe" and be able to fall back to stock in a minute or 2.

So I'll be getting SPDT relays and have to redraw the schematic again. Be nice to put all this in a nice little black box with only in/out connectors/cables showing. Hmm....they have SPST relays as well. May order some of those as well as cheap as they are. Tomorrow I'll try to draw up a few scenarios so you could pick and choose or mix and match.

I was thinking to use the oil pressure switch to switch the drl on, or fuel pump feed on tbi trucks
Very good idea. When I drew it up at work, I knew there was something I was missing. Good catch, thx.

I'd like to do it w/o diodes.... one less thing to buy, install, and fail later on. Not bashing, just how I'd like it.

Look for updates tomorrow evening.
 

Camar068

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One question I did have regarding bulb placement/operation:

Low beam - only top ones ON
High - top and bottom are ON

Sorry, don't know the vehicle that well and who knows what the PO did. Is the above correct LOL? I don't want to cause confusion down the road saying the top or bottom if they are backwards. Chiltons manual schematics for headlights suck btw.
 

Camar068

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You could also use the park/neutral safty switch to turn them on whenever it is out of park. Control the relay with that and use diodes to prvent a backfeed.

My apologies, it's making more sense to me now. Great idea. LOL it's been buggin me since I typed that earlier.
 

Georgeb

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My apologies, it's making more sense to me now. Great idea. LOL it's been buggin me since I typed that earlier.

What are you appolgizing for?
 

Daveo91Burb

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I have to start over, the SPST relays are solid state and rated for AC output only. They could work, but I would only increase from the existing 10.75V to 11.5V at the bulb. LOL can't tell ya how bummed I was. It ain't free no more!

I will be getting a 10 pack off amazon for this project. I'd order the $25 kit and call it done, but I've got the male connectors ($10) on order already. Plus I really want to be able to have that "fail safe" and be able to fall back to stock in a minute or 2.

So I'll be getting SPDT relays and have to redraw the schematic again. Be nice to put all this in a nice little black box with only in/out connectors/cables showing. Hmm....they have SPST relays as well. May order some of those as well as cheap as they are. Tomorrow I'll try to draw up a few scenarios so you could pick and choose or mix and match.

Very good idea. When I drew it up at work, I knew there was something I was missing. Good catch, thx.

I'd like to do it w/o diodes.... one less thing to buy, install, and fail later on. Not bashing, just how I'd like it.

Look for updates tomorrow evening.

One idea for relays: pick-n-pull. A coworker and I were discussing this at lunch today and we looked up prices. $5 for a 5-pin or less relay. Original GM relays vs more expensive Chinese junk seems like a good deal to me. My coworker said he's even found mid 90's GM cars that had a mounting bracket where you could install 6 - 8 identical relays.

I like the idea of the TBI relay for the signal for the DRLs. Pretty much anything that is operable in RUN only would work though?
 

Camar068

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What are you appolgizing for?

lol me being too politically correct. As soon as I saw diodes, I stopped reading and didn't consider it. I get the too PC from work, really have to watch what you say LOL.

One idea for relays: pick-n-pull.

I would love to have pick n pull close to me. All the junk yards around here are really proud of their parts.
 

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One question I did have regarding bulb placement/operation:

Low beam - only top ones ON
High - top and bottom are ON

I don't want to cause confusion down the road saying the top or bottom if they are backwards.



Below is just about everything I think I know about the square body quad headlight setup - and I know this will cause confusion.


1. Start off with the easy stuff- this is how the headlights are designed to look when illuminated,

On low beams:

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On high beams:

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2. When equipped with halogens, the original GM part numbers for the upper/low (dual filament) and lower/high sealed beams were: 16532129 & 5930567, respectively. The P/N for the high beam seemed to be consistent as noted above - 5930567 (50 W).

On the other hand, the low beam part number varied depending on the wattage combination. There were 3 sealed beams with dual wattage ratings that were generally used: 35/35, 40/45 & 40/60.

3. The sealed beams were more commonly known by their ACD (AC Delco) model numbers. In the case of a 1986 C/K truck, they were sold as H4652 (40/60 W) & H4651 (50 W):

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4. These particular sealed beams are classified as type 2A1 & 1A1. The first digit (1 or 2) refers to the number of filaments incorporated within the lamp. The alpha character and the final digit defines the dimensions of the glass at it's largest point. The A1 class sealed beams are 100 mm X 165 mm:

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5. As mentioned above, while all the sealed beams within a particular classification must have the same physical dimensions, they can vary as to the rated wattage. In 1986, GM spec'd the sealed beams used in their quad headlight design to be 40/60 W for the low beams and 50 W for the high beams (i.e. the 4652 & 4651):

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6. One aspect of GM's quad headlight design that confuses people is how the dual filament/low beam operates under dimmed and undimmed conditions. The higher wattage filament (60 W) is actually the one that is energized when low the headlights are dipped (on lows). When high beams are switched on, power is secured to the 60 W filament and the 40 W filament is energized along with the single 50 W in the high sealed beam. Like this shown below.

Lows:

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Highs:

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7. The next issue that comes up is wiring. Specifically, how the 3 wires are supposed to be connected to the low beam's terminals. With the high beam, it doesn't matter which way the connections are made. Either wire can be on either terminal and the lamp will still illuminate correctly.

But on the dual filament low beam it is critical to proper operation that the high beam, low beam and ground leads are connected exactly right. A 4652 sealed beam that is correctly mounted and wired looks like this:

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It looks like it's upside down and crooked, but that's how a 2A1 is supposed to be:

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If you look lower down in the picture above, you can see that the terminals in the 4651 (high beam) are at the same angle as those on the low beam. The high beam has an A1 designation and so it's indexed counter-clockwise as well.

Here is a closer look at the upper/low beam:

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That images are from my old truck that was kept completely stock. They match up with the federal government standards for 2A1 & 2E1 sealed beams:

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I'm color blind so there is no apparent difference in color between the high and low beam (lt grn & tan) leads. But I can see that the black ground wire is in the upper left corner of the triangle. That is the opposite of how most wiring diagrams depict it - and how the terminals are layed out for every other dual filament sealed beam - except the 2E1 type. This page shows the geometry of the 2 B,C & D classes:

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If you look inside a halogen 4652 sealed beam, you'll see the type of lamp commonly used today encased in the glass shell. The small bulb - containing the filaments - within the rectangular glass shell is called an envelope. That is the area that contains the halogen. On a vacuum sealed type beam, there is no small, inner bulb. The filaments are exposed and the entire shell is under a near perfect vacuum.
 
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Camar068

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Thanks Chengny for the info

So I went through it trying my best to get it done with only 2 relays. The conditions I tested are listed below. I'd get so close but there was always one little snag. Anyway, below is a 3 relay setup. Run through it as I did if you like. I didn't list everything OFF as that's an easy one.

Of course for the ACC/IGN signal....control it with something that is ON when the engine is actually running or trans in gear.

1. engine OFF-HL ON
2. acc or engine ON - HL OFF
3. engine ON - HL ON

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Camar068

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Well I finally got around to wiring up the 3 relays and terminal switch into a small box I got from work. LOL the fold up case is what internal pacemakers come in. The rep leaves me a bunch here and there. Good for mixing up small amounts of fiberglass resin etc.

Anyway, I need to change the bulb connectors.....wires are thin. All I have to hook up is power, ign, better bulb connectors, and wire to oil pressure sender. I'm going to build another for the other side....if something happens to one side it shouldn't affect the other.

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