K20 pulling 19k lbs...

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Strick

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Sounds like there's plenty of experienced tow drivers sounding off. I love my 79 CCLB C20 but I know it will not pull my 43Ft, 16K LB trailer. My 16 CCLB DMax definitely knows it's back there...in any driving condition. 12MPG is all she'll do (no tuner yet) & my 79 won't hardly get 12MPG unloaded. I would fix the K20 & enjoy it's uses but would definitely consider a modern rig for the tow.

HS
 

dvdswan

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Just an FYI ....

1991
https://towratings.net/detail/1991/chevrolet-gmc/v3500+crew-cab+(4wd) tow limit 10,000 lbs.

https://towratings.net/detail/1991/chevrolet-gmc/r3500+crew-cab+(2wd) tow limit 10,000 lbs.

2020
https://towratings.net/detail/2020/...500+reg+cab+drw+4wd,+conventional/fifth-wheel tow limit 20,000 lbs.

https://towratings.net/detail/2020/...500+reg+cab+drw+2wd,+conventional/fifth-wheel tow limit 20,000 lbs.

I'm sure ratings are based on all tons of factors including: size of load, brake systems, torque values, etc. The main thing is control. If you tow anything past the vehicle's tow rating, you are opening up yourself to a lawsuit if there's an accident even if it's not your fault. Sadly, that's how this country thinks. That's why we have all these warning labels to protect the manufacturers.

My 2 thoughts; 1) buy a new truck with the proper weight rating, or 2) customized a newer vehicle frame to have a 83-87/91 SB fit to the frame.
 

85K304SPD

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Find a modern Diesel truck, used for about 10k, and dump 10k into it and you will still be ahead, and safe. You can enjoy your fifth wheel then, instead of spending all of your time and money building something that isn't meant to be... Sounds fun, but really, it will never be what you want it to be.
Funny, I have had 2 people trying to sell me there 5th wheels recently, because, "they are a little too big". Just buy a reasonable sized camper trailer, if you want to use your square to go camping. They are out there. Good luck with it all.
 

Grit dog

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@Dano500
Yes sorry I got a kind of cynical in my replies. I should work on that….
But the same message I think applies.
I have had the fortunate experience of being around/repairing, managing the fleet or being behind the wheel of a whole lot of light duty trucks doing work.
Including back when the 80s squares were just going out of production and still fairly “new” trucks.
And what I’ve learned is there would be a LOT that would have to go into a 30-50 year old pickup to turn it into something that would pull a 13’ tall, 8.5’ wide, 40’ long safely, effectively and enjoyably.
Back when that truck was new, a box trailer the size of a 5ver like yours was at a minimum a med duty or even a small class 8 load.
Being in Houston I’ll assume that your intended use is basically near sea level and relatively flat ground. That does make a huge difference when it comes to power and braking. But it’s also hot AF there and keeping a 500-600hp big block cool and together at consistently the upper end of its duty cycle will also be a big challenge. Case in point, even the newest most powerful gasser pickups out now are only in the low 400s for HP. In an era where there are dozens of car models right off the assembly line with 500-800/900 streetable factory warranty horsepower. Why? Heat and duty cycle.
Yes you can build a 4L80 to be pretty dang bulletproof. But again starting with “inferior” components for the task requires infinitely more time and $ to make them say 100% stronger than what they were originally designed for.
Then add brakes, suspension, and yes the frame. The pounding that an estimated 4klb or more pin weight would put on an old truck is something you’d have to experience towing those loads to understand I think.
And once you get all that in line, you still have an old truck with an upright bench seat and few creature comforts by todays standards.
Oh and wheelbase and weight. Not as much of an issue for handling a stinger steered trailer but instead of the trailer being twice as heavy as the tow rig it’s now 3x + as heavy. And the “semi trucks do it” argument doesn’t hold water in this context. There’s 10x more strength and capability built into a 10 wheel semi tractor even though it only weighs as much as 3 squarebodys.
I think it would be awesome to see and done right, almost an engineering marvel. But there’s a long expensive road to how between now and that future.
Also the “$60k for the right truck” argument is also flawed. By that logic it’s like saying, to get out of this apartment I need to spend $1 million on a house.
Suffice it to say I’m in the (much) smaller camper or much newer more capable truck camp.
Cheers
Good discussion. I can imagine building the ultimate square tow rig but I would never attempt it. Simply out of lack of practicality on most all fronts.
 

Grit dog

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Another thought, campers are still selling pretty well around here and seems for good money still, despite the absolute glut of newer campers on the market due to Covid. I expected the bottom to drop out of the camper market by now but it hasn’t although I’d be very surprised if it doesn’t next year.
I think it’s still the best time to sell a camper if you didn’t sell it in the last 2 years. And next year will be a better time to buy one, cost wise.
Unless full timing or big pimpin, I can’t imagine doing road trips with a semi trailer hooked to even a newer pickup. Far too limiting unless you’re literally running major highways to full service RV parks.
If you want to “get out and get away” a more manageable size camper is a far better option for most.
To that point, you may possibly even run the risk of being denied entry into some RV parks based on the age of your rig.
Well yes I’m still 100% of the opinion that this is not a sound plan but hopefully my thoughts are well received as I’m saying this stuff from experience.
 

Grit dog

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That said I could be totally full of sheet and this truck is an example of someone who did what you’re proposing albeit 40 years ago when there weren’t much better options in light duty trucks.
I spoke with the old feller selling it yesterday. Turns out someone committed to buying it about 1 hour after he posted the add but I’ll be headed to MT if it’s not gone today!
GM never built this truck in the early 70s. Owner bought it from his buddy who bought it new and converted a 73 K20 into a dually and dropped a 400sbc in place of the presumably 350 factory motor. Said the guy used it to tow his tractor and the srw axle didn’t like it.
Also in Montana which = high altitude and steep mountain grades. apparently he and the truck lived through it as this is how it sat 35 years ago when it was purchased by the current owner.
You must be registered for see images attach
 

Frankenchevy

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Yup, it is a 5th wheel trailer. 15.9k dry weight & 18.9k gross weight, which includes 1k lbs of fresh water and 2k cargo. I was looking at a 3500 RAM before, but not interested in spending $60k.

I've seen this truck with 454 towing 14k lbs, which is what gave me the idea.
Wow, that’s a hefty 5r TT. What’s the make and model of the trailer so we know what you’re working with?

With a 5r, an often overlooked aspect is tongue weight as it pertains to the tow vehicle’s GVWR and GAWR for the rear axle. I’d assume the tongue weight on a loaded up 18.9k trailer would be around 5k. That’d make it past the rating of just about any light duty pickup available now or in the past. This is why I suggested a medium duty truck. They will manage that kind of weight much better, as they are built for that sort of thing.

If you still want a square:

Or something newer:

My buddy had a newer crew cab Kodiak/Topkick with a regular pickup style bed on it about a decade ago. It was his toy hauler tow vehicle.
 

SirRobyn0

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Anything is possible with enough $$$ put into it. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said before, but nothing will change the GVWR of the truck in the eyes of the law. Now I'm no
My '90 Squarebody CC DRW is rated to tow 13k. If I were to tow a trailer that weighed more than that regardless whether its 5th wheel, bumper, or gooseneck and get in an accident, I'd most likely be at fault regardless as I exceeded the weight ratings of the vehicle.

As far as a Cad 500 motor...I'm going against the consensus here but I'll give my opinion regardless as I am a fan of them.

I've met a few that have done it and been told it is almost a bolt in on a squarebody. Supposedly, all you have to do is swap the frame stands from side to side and make the appropriate crossmember mods. Haven't done it myself but have plans to build one one day for cruising as it is hard to beat the power and smoothness of a Cad 472/500. The few I've been around are as smooth as a new Lexus, and if you use aluminum heads and intake, are barely heavier than a SBC and they are fairly compact. Put a 2.73-3.5 gear and FI and you'll have power and MPG. I wouldn't swap my 454 for one but if i was starting with nothing, i'd consider it.
Right and there is nothing that can be done from a legal stand point that would increase that rating.
 

Dano500

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Wow, that’s a hefty 5r TT. What’s the make and model of the trailer so we know what you’re working with?

With a 5r, an often overlooked aspect is tongue weight as it pertains to the tow vehicle’s GVWR and GAWR for the rear axle. I’d assume the tongue weight on a loaded up 18.9k trailer would be around 5k. That’d make it past the rating of just about any light duty pickup available now or in the past. This is why I suggested a medium duty truck. They will manage that kind of weight much better, as they are built for that sort of thing.

If you still want a square:

Or something newer:

My buddy had a newer crew cab Kodiak/Topkick with a regular pickup style bed on it about a decade ago. It was his toy hauler tow vehicle.
Those look pretty cool, but I imagine would be too tall for the fifth wheel. The tongue weight is 2,8xxlbs, and I don't know the weight of the truck, but the general info says gross weight is 8k to 9k lbs, so I am assuming 3k to 4k payload, so hopefully it is closer to 4k since it's a 3/4 ton.

the trailer is a Carriage, Carriage. Not a cameo, or a carrie-lite, or the other lighter ones. I kind of wish it was at this point. lol

Model: CW374 37'11"
 

Dano500

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Anything is possible with enough $$$ put into it. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said before, but nothing will change the GVWR of the truck in the eyes of the law. Now I'm no

Right and there is nothing that can be done from a legal stand point that would increase that rating.
Hello,
I definitely understand what you are saying, but I highly doubt I would be the first one to use one of these trucks "outside of their legal rating, but i could be wrong.
 

Ricko1966

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I know this isn't exactly apples to apples but not real far from it. I used to work with a guy, he bought a 1 ton dually extended cab with a 6.2,brand new. Don towed everything,all across the U.S. 13 years later the 6.2 needed some work so we pulled the engine and rebuilt it. At the time myself and everyone else in the shop was just,Don put a 454 in it or a 455 Olds either is an easy cheap swap. Don was I like my 6.2 it tows good and gets good milage loaded or empty. A 6.2 or a 6.5 would almost install itself in that K. Buying a rusted,wrecked,no title,whatever 6.2 or 6.5 truck would be cheap. and have all the pieces. I don't know about putting 1 ton suspension and brakes under it but the drive train would be easy.
 

Redfish

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According to their website the Carriage CW374 has (approximate) weights of 2810 at the hitch and 15,200 dry. 37'11" long, 12'11" tall.

The hitch/pin weight is not a problem, the total weight is. I would not want to pull a trailer that long, that tall and that heavy without a dual rear wheel setup. You are correct that many, many folks have pulled and hauled things that far exceeded the listed capacity of their vehicles. I have done it myself. Then we go back and brag that "The Truck didn't even know it was back there!" But if you are ever unfortunate enough to have an accident with this rig and you end up in court...you are not going to like the outcome.

My personal experience towing 5th wheel trailers tells me that the extra stability of dual rear wheels is worth the investment. My trailer is about 11K pounds and is 37'8". I have pulled it with a 2007 Duramax and now with a 2019 Duramax, both 2500HDs. I don't even want to think about pulling it with less truck than I have.

Nobody is trying to insult you, everybody that answered and posted in this thread is trying to Do The Right Thing. We really are trying to help you.

Good luck.
 

HotWheelsBurban

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The trailer my mom, brother and I live in is a 40' long, 12' high fifth wheel, triple axle. The friend we got it from lives in Conroe and the trailer was in Splendora. He moved it from where he got it, to his shop and property, and then brought it to the RV park in SW Houston near 610. For all of this, he used a RAM dually one ton 4x4 with a Cummins in it. Our trailer weighs around what yours does, maybe a little more. I remember him mentioning 15K# in the discussion about getting and moving it.
That truck moved this trailer just fine. I've also seen him move loaded car hauler trailers with the Cummins powered dually he had before this one. He used to drive semi's and goes all over the South, buying and selling cars. So he's used to hauling heavy loads and knows what it takes to do the job.
My one ton crew cab would probably (if it had the appropriate hitch) move this trailer, but not near as well, and it probably wouldn't do it for a long distance. Certainly not near as well as a dually would. And unless it's an emergency I'm not going to haul way more than my truck will handle!
A few months ago, we went on a trip to Austin and back, to a big car show and swap meet. The truck had the 3 of us and gear for a long weekend in the back seat (including my tools which is 100# right there) and the bed was full of tables, parts and fixtures for my booth. We were towing a 5x8 enclosed utility trailer, that was full, probably 3600# total, trailer weight and contents. This combo would go all day on flat ground at 65; once we got into the hills it needed a little more throttle to keep that speed. The truck performed well on the trip, but I noticed that the extra weight did require a good bit of extra stopping distance. And this is a full floating axle, GM 14 bolt, 10.5" ring gear, with 13"x3.5" rear brakes and big discs up front. We weren't asking the truck to do anything it's not built to do, but even the small trailer we were pulling, would push you down the hill on a stop. Just basic physics there. Getting a large heavy mass moving takes some distance and effort; so does stopping it!
Last year at the park, a guy came in hauling a trailer almost as big as ours, with a '93 GMC one ton dually. He said it has a 454 in it, and he pulls this trailer a lot with this truck, and he'd just come from Florida with it. Only places he had trouble towing it was in the tunnels around Mobile, and I know those are steep grades. I bet the running gear isn't stock though! Didn't get a chance to find out more on this, because we were heading out of town, when we got home, he was gone.
There's often many newer 5th wheel and large bumper pull trailers here in the park; all are pulled by late model one tons, mostly duallies. A few of the 4500/5500 medium duty tow rigs too. These are just better designed for hauling the bigger trailers people use nowadays. When the squares were new, even when the OBS trucks were new, the trailers weren't as big, tall and heavy as they are now. It's not just about engines, transmissions, brakes and axles; the frames and suspension have to be stouter too.
 

Hunter79764

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I think if you were to do it, you would need a later model 1 ton running gear (8.1l or duramax) and plenty of frame strengthening, and probably a 14 bolt FF rear and DRW conversion. At that point, you could buy either of those Kodiak's posted earlier (man, that square looks awesome o_O) and fix up your square as a tool-around truck. I'll give it to you that driving around Houston you aren't going to find many mountain passes, but brakes and stability for emergency lane changes will be big, and sway from side gusts will be a factor as well. I'd want as wide of a platform as possible if it was me.

Last month I took my 34' Kodiak based motorhome, flat towing my 87 Burban behind it, through Houston twice. Combined weight and combined length are probably pretty close to what you have in mind, just flipped end to end. With the C5500 chassis, it was only occasionally harrowing, but it was never pleasant. Trying to do that with the chassis of my Suburban (a K20) would scare the ever-loving life out of me, fwiw.
 

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