wheel hop solutions few other ???

[frankenstien]

so heres what i have... a 1974 gmc k15 with 3/4 ton axles. D44HD/FF14bolt with 4.56 gears, it has a lockright locker in the rear. currently has some sad 285/75/16 cooper discoverer ST's, right now they are measuring 31.5'' tall

4'' suspension lift, springs in front, ORD shackle flip in the rear, the rear leaf pack has 3 springs doubled for a total of 10(i haul a water tank with it now and again) it also has a set of the tuff country "traction" bars that bolt to the leaf spring hanger and to the top of the U bolts on the rear axle

i am running a 500hp+/- hp 383/th350/205 2500 stall converter

it used to be really bad when i had the 4'' lift blocks, but it got better once i did the shackle flip. i am thinking of building a set of anti wrap bars? would that be enough? just 1? or a pair? use a johnny joint at one end?

any other ideas? the truck is mostly street driven, goes offroad a few times a summer when i go out shooting, but nothing too extreme. I am probably going to be putting a set of 315/75/16 tires on it also int he not too distant future

i know there are kits available, but shipping to alaska kills that idea pretty quick, stupid expensive

thanks in advance

 

[PrairieDrifter]

In theory I don't think traction bars going to the u-bolt plate will do much if anything at all. That being said I've never seen it, if its literally just a new u-bolt plate you bolt on instead of the old one then its not really doing any good IMO.

A lot of kits just consist of a crossmember that mounts a certain distance from the rear axle then you weld mounts on the axle tube, and bolt the other end of the "traction" bar onto the crossmember, so it wouldn't be terrible to fabricate.

 

[Georgeb]

I could see somthing like this working. I could also see short ladder bars working. I made a set for an F250 high boy and they sure helped keep things planted in the dirt.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

There's just something about that to me that just doesn't seem right, I just can't put my finger on it. I'm sure it would help out and you would notice a difference, but not to the same affect as a more common setup. Maybe I'm crazy..lol

 

[Georgeb]

True ladder bars that create a triagle are the best bet but The theory behind the setup pictured will offer a reduction in the axles ability to wrap the springs by forsing it to have to push the front half of the spring. There is no shackle there to swing so it must twist the spring more before it can move forward. There actually is a triagle there but the side composed of the spring is flexible.

 

[crazy4offroad]

A lot of the high-hp mud racers run 4-links with aonly a couple inches uptravel to the bump stops for launches. It's hard to make one truck do all things well. Offroaders need all the suspension cycle they can get while racers need as close to zero drop as they can get on launch, and work trucks just need to be able to haul a load as stable as possible. Are you sure you don't have any cracked springs in the packs?

 

[frankenstien]

I could see somthing like this working. I could also see short ladder bars working. I made a set for an F250 high boy and they sure helped keep things planted in the dirt.

these are almost exactly like what i have.

this is a link to the ones i have http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfy-10795

they have helped, but but still not enough

 

[frankenstien]

A lot of the high-hp mud racers run 4-links with aonly a couple inches uptravel to the bump stops for launches. It's hard to make one truck do all things well. Offroaders need all the suspension cycle they can get while racers need as close to zero drop as they can get on launch, and work trucks just need to be able to haul a load as stable as possible. Are you sure you don't have any cracked springs in the packs?

i am pretty sure they are all good, but i will double check tonight.

 

[Greybeard]

Back in the eighties I ran those traction aids on a six lift, 14BFF, and 39/15-15 Mickey Thompson Tall Bajas. They worked great, but they broke often, the bar just is not heavy enough for high horsepower. They last about a year each but the constant flexing is bad on them. Today they may have addressed that issue better although from the pictures it doesn't look like it. The end that breaks is the front that slims down and is bolted straight through the front plate. It would be much better if that end also had a eye and bushing setup so it can rotate with the suspension cycling. Then the body would have to have a turnbuckle type of adjustment on it (or even a small set of tie rod ends like off a small tractor -Just thinking out loud-). That would raise the cost substantially however. I would think the same thing could be fabricated at home or at the local welding/fabrication shop.

But as I said, the the Tuff Country ones would likely work, mine were made by Trail Master back in the day but were the same thing. I used my truck to dry the staging lanes at what used to be called St. Louis International Raceway (called Gateway Motorsports Park today I guess) back then during the All-Harley Drags. I could steam em halfway down the track with a Gov-lock that worked great. Not really, but it would spin them until they smoked past the end of the staging area with no wheel hop when dry pavement was engaged.

 

[frankenstien]

well i currently have the tuff country ones, and they are not working for me. i will try to take some pictures of my suspension after work tonight and post them up, might give a better idea of what im dealing with

 

[hatzie]

Back in the eighties I ran those traction aids on a six lift, 14BFF, and 39/15-15 Mickey Thompson Tall Bajas. They worked great, but they broke often, the bar just is not heavy enough for high horsepower. They last about a year each but the constant flexing is bad on them. Today they may have addressed that issue better although from the pictures it doesn't look like it. The end that breaks is the front that slims down and is bolted straight through the front plate. It would be much better if that end also had a eye and bushing setup so it can rotate with the suspension cycling. Then the body would have to have a turnbuckle type of adjustment on it (or even a small set of tie rod ends like off a small tractor -Just thinking out loud-). That would raise the cost substantially however. I would think the same thing could be fabricated at home or at the local welding/fabrication shop.

But as I said, the the Tuff Country ones would likely work, mine were made by Trail Master back in the day but were the same thing. I used my truck to dry the staging lanes at what used to be called St. Louis International Raceway (called Gateway Motorsports Park today I guess) back then during the All-Harley Drags. I could steam em halfway down the track with a Gov-lock that worked great. Not really, but it would spin them until they smoked past the end of the staging area with no wheel hop when dry pavement was engaged.

If the 1989-2016 GM W-Body lateral links are the same length then you can buy some pretty beefy adjustable rods ready made with eyes on both ends. But why buy the expensive hot rod parts... For this application you don't need beefy parts like the ZZ-Performance or UMI tubular lateral arms. Especially if you have to shorten them. You can shorten and weld salvaged stock solid W-Body lateral links and still have a beefier piece than the pictured rod with pivots on both ends. There are four on each W-Body rear so you can screw up two and still have enough to do the job. Probably can get used stock lateral links off a 00-16 Impala SS or 97-07 Grand Prix GTP GXP pretty cheap. GM made thousands of those cars. The regular W-Body had Stamped sheet metal arms so you want the ones with the uplevel suspension packages... LTZ, SS, GTP, GXP W-Body Impala, Grand Prix and Monte Carlo all got the FE3 FE4 suspensions with the better lateral arms.
https://www.google.com/search?q=W-Body+lateral+links&ie=UTF-8

 

[Greybeard]

well i currently have the tuff country ones, and they are not working for me. i will try to take some pictures of my suspension after work tonight and post them up, might give a better idea of what im dealing with

I found that if they are adjusted too tight they fail more often. They need a little slack for articulation. They are not perfect traction aids by any stretch however. The alternative is severe wheel hop however with a large contact patch and one shock and the springs providing all the damping to housing wrap and roll. Like slapper bars there needs to be some wrap (1/8"-1/4") to help plant the tires but more importantly to allow the suspense to work normally. I suppose if the goal is racing or rock climbing getting under the truck before the action and tightening them down with a bit of preload couldn't hurt. Ultimately, the directions that came with them need to be followed. What worked (or didn't work) for me does not necessarily translate well to your truck.

The best way requires welding, a certain amount of fabrication skills, and being well versed in how a suspension works. It isn't rocket science however. A wish bone or even a single strut forward to a brace of some kind positioned in an area that won't interfere with anything and placed far enough vertically off the horizontal center-line of the axle housing is the best way. But this requires applying some geometry to equation for the traction bar to in a neutral position so it does not load or bind the suspension anywhere in its travel.

 

[frankenstien]

alright i Finally got some pics taken of my rear suspension stuff, i apologize for the cell phone pics

my front mount into the hanger is a little different than the one int he other pic

 

[Greybeard]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Those are the same type traction aids I used years ago. They work but they are a compromise. The one issue I had was the threaded end breaking from too much flexing. That end really needs some improvement. Like maybe an eye on the end of the bar with some kind of mount that is flexible instead of allowing the bar to flex inside the rubber bushings. It cannot be a solid mount for vibration and articulation reasons. I'm pretty sure that they built it that way as a deliberate weak point. To make certain the leaf spring did not suffer the same fate from too much flexing at the point of the axle or simply binding the axle housing movement.

What I do see is what I feel is too much pinion angle. That will just get worse when you accelerate and the housing rotates the pinion up (the pinion gear climbs the ring gear). Might think about getting some shims over the spring packs to bring that down some. Might consider sometime in the future buying a real driveshaft too. JMHO

 

[frankenstien]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Those are the same type traction aids I used years ago. They work but they are a compromise. The one issue I had was the threaded end breaking from too much flexing. That end really needs some improvement. Like maybe an eye on the end of the bar with some kind of mount that is flexible instead of allowing the bar to flex inside the rubber bushings. It cannot be a solid mount for vibration and articulation reasons. I'm pretty sure that they built it that way as a deliberate weak point. To make certain the leaf spring did not suffer the same fate from too much flexing at the point of the axle or simply binding the axle housing movement.

What I do see is what I feel is too much pinion angle. That will just get worse when you accelerate and the housing rotates the pinion up (the pinion gear climbs the ring gear). Might think about getting some shims over the spring packs to bring that down some. Might consider sometime in the future buying a real driveshaft too. JMHO

i agree, the end of the bar is the weak point, it just has a threaded end welded to the solid bar, at the time, it was an affordable solution, ish. i made some other traction bars, before i understood how everything flexed and twisted, they didnt work, i have since cut them off and patched everything up,

as for pinion angle, yeah, i believe when i put the shackle flip kit on the back, it pushes the back end of the leaf spring down and pivots off the front hanger, pointing the yolk up more, going to do some homework on it and try to figure out what size shim to use.

what do you mean "real driveshaft"? this one has held up, when i had it made, i had them make it out of the thickest sidewall tube they had.