Let's debate it ...oil pumps

[73c20jim]

Used to use a BBC pump on SBC race motor. Modified pickup. Worked well for me.

 

[MikeB]

From what I've read and heard over the years, a stock volume/stock pressure pump is good for 90% of normal street applications. If your bearings are in good shape, you should see around 40-50 psi from a stock pump at anything above 2000 RPM after the engine reaches operating temperature. If less than 35 PSI, and you frequently rev the engine to 4,500 RPM or above, you might want to consider a higher pressure pump. The 350 I built 3 years ago for my 82 C10 still has approx 50 psi at 2000-2500 RPM when the 10w-30 oil is warmed up. And it has a stock Melling M155 pump. As I recall, that's the pump specified for 96-up 5.7L Vortec engines, but I'm not sure how it differs from the traditional M55.

Here's a pump for Gen I small block that's exceptionally well made. It has 10% more volume than stock, and works with a bolt-on a pickup. However, an M55 works fine for most applications, assuming you use a steel shaft collar instead of plastic/nylon. I used one in a 6,500 RPM solid lifter 327 after they were first introduced. I suspect this pump would outlast several engines!

https://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/10552/10002/-1

10552

• You must be registered for see images attach
  High volume performance oil pump.
• 10% increase in volume over stock oil pump.
• The 10552 is manufactured with the drive and idler shafts extended to allow for additional support in the cover eliminating dynamic shaft deflection at increased RPM levels.
• The cover is doweled to the pump housing to assure alignment of the shaft bores.
• Screw in plug retains relief valve spring instead of pin.
• Relief hole in cover uses screw in plug instead of pressed cup plug.
• All bolts are self locking socket heads, with the wrench supplied.
• The housing and cover are CNC machined and phosphate coated.
• Includes intermediate shaft with steel guide. Uses both 3/4” bolt on or press in screen.
• The lower pressure spring is included to reduce pressure if desired.
• Patent No. 5,810,571.

 

[MikeB]

I don't think an HV pump will drain a stock pan. If an engine experiences oil starvation, it's caused by the pickup sucking air in corners, during heavy acceleration, or heavy braking. That's an oil pan design or pickup placement issue, not the fault of an HV pump.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to see the test results.

On a related note, a friend of mine bought a modified LS6 oil pan from some company in the deep south (can't remember their name) designed for use in a 55-57 Chevy car. Just one look and I knew it wouldn't work, because the sump size had been drastically reduced, and the baffling was totally inadequate. A quick order from Summit got us a brand new Holley oil pan, which was night & day better with no compromises.

I suspect had my friend used the first pan, it would have worked for slow cruising with very moderate acceleration and braking, along with low G turns -- at least for a while.

 

[DoubleDingo]

When we rebuilt the 350 for my '56 Sedan back in '85 Pop had me get a high volume pump. Never had any issues with the engine and it wasn't hopped up or anything. But now that I've read these posts, I think my next oil pump purchase will be a stock volume.

 

[Josh Helm]

Thanks for thoughts guys...

 

[WHEELMAN]

You guys scare me.you had better know what engine block you have before.throwing oil pumps on it.the old engine blocks use a high volume stock pump.and you could ad a custom high volume pump melons are best.

Up in the eighties they went from pressure to volume pumps.the blocks and cams and cranks are milled for more volume less pressure.but with a volumn block.if there is a better pump.you need to yse it on a engine with roller rockers and cams.you going to run dry top end and use the oil filters that have the valve that does not let the oil drain back in to the pan.use good weight oil.i would use lucust oil treatment.and change the filter mid way.miles of oil change.sounds like you should of used a built turbo 700 trans with out computer.the early ones

 

[QBuff02]

stock pump for any type of stock application, high volume for anything "performance" or the sort. The big thing about pressure, just like my engine guy taught me years ago, it's all about clearances inside the engine that dictate "pressure".. so for instance, you could have a worn out engine only making say 10-15lbs of oil pressure at an idle, rebuild it with all new parts, pieces, bearings, etc. but put the same old oil pump back into it and that same oil pump is now making 35-40lbs of pressure at an idle again. Unless the pump get completely galded internally, you're only going to lose the ability to make but about a few lbs difference over the life of it. everything else wearing out in the engine (rod and main bearings, cam bearings, etc.) is why oil pressure falls off as an engine ages. because the tolerances open up over time, the pump loses it's ability to create pressure because it will only move "X" amount of oil for every revolution it makes. He's taken apart thousands of engine over the years, and in doing so, he's torn down a lot of oil pumps checking for wear, damage, etc. and outside of a little wear here and there, he says they generally look like new on the inside. But that's also why I swear by a high volume (but not high pressure) oil pump when rebuilding anything. Especially where any performance is concerned, i'd rather have a little extra oil slingin' around anyway to help lubricate the cam and pistons and other internals, even if it's just a little extra insurance. If your tolerances are right, you'll have plenty of oil pressure to begin with. My 454 rebuild we put in a melling high volume oil pump, and cold it has 75-80 lbs above idle and about 60 warmed up. granted it still has 30wt break in oil in it, but I should never have a problem at those pressures. And a high volume oil pump delivers somewhere in the neighborhood of 15ish% more oil per revolution. So spread that out over the whole engine for every crankshaft revolution and it's really not that much more oil to begin with. Goes back to the extra insurance thing I mentioned earlier, just my $.02..

 

[Josh Helm]

Was my same thought myself but ordered high pressure instead and my tolerances were exactly in the middle of gm requirements..well not exactly my mains were on lower end of scale ...meaning tight ...but yes this does increase pressure naturally

 

[Big Chip]

You guys scare me.you had better know what engine block you have before.throwing oil pumps on it.the old engine blocks use a high volume stock pump.and you could ad a custom high volume pump melons are best.

Up in the eighties they went from pressure to volume pumps.the blocks and cams and cranks are milled for more volume less pressure.but with a volumn block.if there is a better pump.you need to yse it on a engine with roller rockers and cams.you going to run dry top end and use the oil filters that have the valve that does not let the oil drain back in to the pan.use good weight oil.i would use lucust oil treatment.and change the filter mid way.miles of oil change.sounds like you should of used a built turbo 700 trans with out computer.the early ones

Well said.

 

[Paladin]

stock pump for any type of stock application, high volume for anything "performance" or the sort. The big thing about pressure, just like my engine guy taught me years ago, it's all about clearances inside the engine that dictate "pressure".. so for instance, you could have a worn out engine only making say 10-15lbs of oil pressure at an idle, rebuild it with all new parts, pieces, bearings, etc. but put the same old oil pump back into it and that same oil pump is now making 35-40lbs of pressure at an idle again. Unless the pump get completely galded internally, you're only going to lose the ability to make but about a few lbs difference over the life of it. everything else wearing out in the engine (rod and main bearings, cam bearings, etc.) is why oil pressure falls off as an engine ages. because the tolerances open up over time, the pump loses it's ability to create pressure because it will only move "X" amount of oil for every revolution it makes. He's taken apart thousands of engine over the years, and in doing so, he's torn down a lot of oil pumps checking for wear, damage, etc. and outside of a little wear here and there, he says they generally look like new on the inside. But that's also why I swear by a high volume (but not high pressure) oil pump when rebuilding anything. Especially where any performance is concerned, i'd rather have a little extra oil slingin' around anyway to help lubricate the cam and pistons and other internals, even if it's just a little extra insurance. If your tolerances are right, you'll have plenty of oil pressure to begin with. My 454 rebuild we put in a melling high volume oil pump, and cold it has 75-80 lbs above idle and about 60 warmed up. granted it still has 30wt break in oil in it, but I should never have a problem at those pressures. And a high volume oil pump delivers somewhere in the neighborhood of 15ish% more oil per revolution. So spread that out over the whole engine for every crankshaft revolution and it's really not that much more oil to begin with. Goes back to the extra insurance thing I mentioned earlier, just my $.02..

AMEN!!!!! Well said.

 

[Honky Kong jr]

You guys scare me.you had better know what engine block you have before.throwing oil pumps on it.the old engine blocks use a high volume stock pump.and you could ad a custom high volume pump melons are best.

Up in the eighties they went from pressure to volume pumps.the blocks and cams and cranks are milled for more volume less pressure.but with a volumn block.if there is a better pump.you need to yse it on a engine with roller rockers and cams.you going to run dry top end and use the oil filters that have the valve that does not let the oil drain back in to the pan.use good weight oil.i would use lucust oil treatment.and change the filter mid way.miles of oil change.sounds like you should of used a built turbo 700 trans with out computer.the early ones

Yet another informative post.....

 

[bucket]

You guys scare me.you had better know what engine block you have before.throwing oil pumps on it.the old engine blocks use a high volume stock pump.and you could ad a custom high volume pump melons are best.

Up in the eighties they went from pressure to volume pumps.the blocks and cams and cranks are milled for more volume less pressure.but with a volumn block.if there is a better pump.you need to yse it on a engine with roller rockers and cams.you going to run dry top end and use the oil filters that have the valve that does not let the oil drain back in to the pan.use good weight oil.i would use lucust oil treatment.and change the filter mid way.miles of oil change.sounds like you should of used a built turbo 700 trans with out computer.the early ones

You mean Melling?

The original application of the block has very little to do with it. It all depends on the intended use, the rpm range it will run in, as well as the bearing clearances.

Besides, the differences aren't nearly as extreme as you are making them out to be. There are only a few examples that would be drastically different from anything else. Like say, a '69 302. But who the hell has one of those to play with anymore? And if you do have one, chances are, you aren't just tossing a pump on it and shoving it under the hood of a '79 truck.

 

[Blue Ox]

Yet another informative post.....

Oh sure, now you're the grammar police. But if I do it...…………..

 

[Honky Kong jr]

Oh sure, now you're the grammar police. But if I do it...…………..

I was referring to content not grammar

 

[mtnmankev]

Here is my two cents worth, for good or bad.
When I built my 383 stroker 19 years ago, I installed a HPHV pump, I wanted to make sure it was well lubricated.
I built the engine the old school way, including smoothing out the edges of the drain holes in the tappet valley slightly to allow faster drainback.
The engine has lasted almost two decades of HARD use in a work pickup, and I have NEVER had any problems with seals leaking or lack of oil in critical areas, and it still runs very strong and responsive.
To this day, cold start gives me 60+ psi on the gauge, when fully warmed up it idles about 45psi and running down the highway it's at 60.
Of course, I am also running the PH373 or S373 big oil filter, and I am anal about oil changes with quality oil, Valvoline or Castrol GTX only.
Maybe I just got lucky ??