hypothetical, mpg

[DoubleDingo]

The British overdrive units (which are a bit of a Rube Goldberg setup using a combo solenoid/hydraulic pump engagement system) have a very stern warning about not attempting to reverse the vehicle if the overdrive is not disengaged. Has something to do with the wet clutches being designed to only grip one way from what I can glean. I don't know all the details and I can't quite work out how the thing works to begin with (sun gears, planet gears, gears with teeth on the inside) but trying to run it backwards is apparently a Very_Bad_Thing and those units aren't cheap.

Same with the borg warner units. I have been driving around town, pull into a parking spot, a then try to back up. With the lockout you cannot even shift into reverse, and if in neutral, it won't roll backwards. Those big needle bearings are the one-way clutch in the tailshaft.

 

[Dejure]

Snort, my comment about backing up quickly was about the speed you moved the truck, not about a speed shift to reverse.

There was no Net back when I had the OD. Not even for government. As such, relative information was hard won.

I threw the "governor" [solenoid] away, so to speak (didn't connect it -didn't want nuthin governed ). Now, after Rick pointed me in the direction [whether he knew it or not], I learned I'd have kept it operational in the system, had I known what I learned about their function].

 

[Dejure]

On the day I got my 3spd with OD running, I was playing/experimenting with the shift patterns for final tweaks of the shift linkage.

I made a run from Bremerton to Tacoma, Washington. I was well down the road and just starting to be unimpressed with the gain when it dawned on me I was still in 2nd over, which wasn't far off of what 3rd, direct, with the other transmissions had been. I went to third, then OD and that 30% drop made it all worth while. The tac dropped to around 2,000 (before, 70 mph pushed it the engine near the 3,000 mark) and the headers got quiet.

I thought the OD was such a good investment, had it gone south, I was looking at things like the T-10, or Hone overdrives .

You had to knock about 15" off your drive line to run them, but they'd run on anything (auto or stick, including 4-wheel drives, IF you could take it out of four wheel (some silly thing about having your front tires turn 32% slower than the back ones)).

Back in the sixties and seventies, a lot of people bought the overdrives, then installed them in their motor homes. The OD's didn't like that, so Hone made a tougher version to handle up to 10,000 pounds. Thought it was the T10, but that was fifty years ago, so . . . .

 

[Dejure]

Some notes, from the Net, on OD systems:

Several modern equivalents and upgrades exist for the classic Borg-Warner T-10/Super T-10 4-speed overdrive, ranging from direct-fit aftermarket transmissions to external overdrive units. Modern equivalents often offer better durability, higher gear capacity, and improved overdrive ratios for street and racing applications
.

• Richmond Gear Super T-10: Richmond continues to manufacture the classic Super T-10 design, often considered the modern standard for a robust, 4-speed manual transmission.
• Gear Vendors Overdrive: This is a popular, modern, 2-speed planetary unit that bolts behind a 4-speed transmission (including the T-10) to add a modern, usable overdrive gear and effectively create 8 speeds.
• Tremec T-5 5-Speed: Although not a direct 4-speed swap, the T-5 is a popular alternative for those wanting a similar feel to a T-10 but with a built-in overdrive.
• Aftermarket Upgrades: Modern Super T-10s are often built with aluminum cases for better cooling, steel input bearing retainers, and improved synchronized, 32-spline output shafts, offering significantly higher strength than original units.
• Used & Rebuilt Units: Due to their popularity, high-quality, rebuilt original Super T-10s remain widely available, particularly from companies specializing in older Muscle Car parts.

 

[Ricko1966]

Why all the talk about T10s?

 

[Dejure]

?

For me, it was because, for times relative, it was the 70'. Options for workable gearing improvements were VERY limited.

One could change a rearend, but that changed everything, affecting starts and what could be pulled. So too it went with transmissions. Dump a GOAT transmission in a 250-6 and the gears were way to tall. A Lemans version of the same was perfect, BUT you still just had direct drive at the top.

The add on overdrives function on the same principals as big trucks do - more gears. Of course, more gears means any given engine could be used to pull more and/or get more mileage.

Too, the Hones or T10's could go behind a stick or an automatic. They could even go behind 4-wheel drive rig transmission. You just had to be able to lock out the front end, and remember to do it, so your front wasn't turning 30% slower than the front.

It amazes me the Detroit variations haven't done a better job of going down the gear road. True, they have 5 and even 6 speed sticks, one or two undependable 10 speeds, but, in the end, they've done a pathetic job.

A smart seller would use ads to CON from a different direction. Things like "a real man/woman knows why big trucks have so many gears and use them too."

Hell, they weren't even bright enough to explain the fact running different sized tires ate their AWD transmissions.

 

[Ricko1966]

Okay a T10 is a 4 speed transmission and has nothing to do with overdrive. Are you thinking about Borg Warner R10 and R11 overdrive units?

 

[peats]

Don't we get this conversation every 2 or three months on getting more mileage? What's the point. If you want good mileage buy a prius. If you want to regularly drive a 40 some year old truck, just pay the price. You can spend thousands to save pennies.

 

[Dejure]

No. I was thinking of the Hone overdrives. I looked into them as best I could, around 50 years ago. From that, I know there were articles about people buying one version of a Hone overdrive capable of, say, pulling 5,000 pounds, but people were putting it on motor homes, so a heavier duty one was built.

I never heard of a Bosch OD in those days. It was only a few years later that I got tired of burning up jig saws every six months, kept going through different brands, with the same result, then happened across Bosch, when I bought my first Bosch barrel (versus D handle) saw, which lasted so many years, I gave it to my brother.

It, certainly, wasn't the R10 thing. That was what I actually went to, as described above. However, while running it, I became so happy with the performance, when it was treated more like a 6 speed (see note, below), I wanted to look into tying a Lemans 4 speed with an overdrive. That took me to the only well know, at least to me, at the time, Hone units.

In the end, I may have ran some of the information through a blender and ended up with the "T10 Hone," rather than what is suggested to be a Model 300.


NOTE: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/325955-the-hone-overdrive/

NOTE: I did not connect the governor part of the OD, which made it operate like a 6 speed you had to shift in and out of at each gear.

_________________
Key Details on 1962 Chevy Overdrive:

• Operation: The unit was engaged semi-automatically, usually when the driver let off the gas pedal at speeds over 30 mph.
• System: It used an electric solenoid, governor, and relay system to control the planetary gear set, which provided a roughly 30% reduction in engine RPM.
• Availability: Listed in 1962 literature as "RPO 315 OVERDRIVE" (Regular Production Option), specifically available with the 135-hp Hi-Thrift 235 straight-six or the 170-hp Turbo-Fire 283 V8 engines.

 

[Ricko1966]

Don't we get this conversation every 2 or three months on getting more mileage? What's the point. If you want good mileage buy a prius. If you want to regularly drive a 40 some year old truck, just pay the price. You can spend thousands to save pennies.

I want reasonable milage. A trucks no good if you can't afford to put gas in it. There's no reason that if anybody wants to get better milage out of their rig that we should shut them down. As a matter of fact if more people tried, some of the mistakes people keep making that hurts their milage,would be exposed and people concerned with milage wouldn't have to make those mistakes. There's a big difference between people that drive there trucks 10 miles every time they come out and people that drive them 100 miles everytime they drive them. 15 mpg beats the he!!, out of 10 and SirRobynO proved 17 isn't out of reach for a working truck with a V8 and 3.42 gears. His cost outlay was minimal,make everything work like it did new. EGR, ESC distributor etc. proper tune, good plugs.

 

[Dejure]

Really, peats? You think it's an all or nothing, your way, thing?

I, and many others like me, liked being able to pull a fully loaded truck and trailer with my little six, even leaving a Detroit [de]tuned a big block with a cab-over camper behind on the steep slope of a mountain passes, but still getting mileage without loads.

Do you have the same opinion about: (1) swapping seats; (2) swapping stock dashes for $1,500.00 ones; (3) paint jobs that costs many thousands; (4) paying 70k, rather than 50 k for that new truck; (5) that boat to catch a few fish. . . .

In the end, not everyone is interested in a quarter miler.

And, by the way, a $2,000.00 for an overdrive on a truck I drive figures out to $11.00 a year. You could say even less, if you factored in fuel savings.


"Don't we get this conversation every 2 or three months on getting more mileage? What's the point. If you want good mileage buy a prius. If you want to regularly drive a 40 some year old truck, just pay the price. You can spend thousands to save pennies."

 

[peats]

Really, peats? You think it's an all or nothing, your way, thing?

I, and many others like me, liked being able to pull a fully loaded truck and trailer with my little six, even leaving a Detroit [de]tuned a big block with a cab-over camper behind on the steep slope of a mountain passes, but still getting mileage without loads.

Do you have the same opinion about: (1) swapping seats; (2) swapping stock dashes for $1,500.00 ones; (3) paint jobs that costs many thousands; (4) paying 70k, rather than 50 k for that new truck; (5) that boat to catch a few fish. . . .

In the end, not everyone is interested in a quarter miler.

And, by the way, a $2,000.00 for an overdrive on a truck I drive figures out to $11.00 a year. You could say even less, if you factored in fuel savings.


"Don't we get this conversation every 2 or three months on getting more mileage? What's the point. If you want good mileage buy a prius. If you want to regularly drive a 40 some year old truck, just pay the price. You can spend thousands to save pennies."

 

[peats]

I do all of the small things to improve mileage and performance as hedders, aluminum intake, dual exhaust without an x pipe and nothing more. My POV should not be confused with your POV. My squares perform as built and I accept the gas mileage as it is. To buy one and expect it to do something it was never designed to do is unrealistic . To build one purely for gas mileage defeats the purpose of having a fun truck IMHO.
.

 

[peats]

Really, peats? You think it's an all or nothing, your way, thing?

I, and many others like me, liked being able to pull a fully loaded truck and trailer with my little six, even leaving a Detroit [de]tuned a big block with a cab-over camper behind on the steep slope of a mountain passes, but still getting mileage without loads.

Do you have the same opinion about: (1) swapping seats; (2) swapping stock dashes for $1,500.00 ones; (3) paint jobs that costs many thousands; (4) paying 70k, rather than 50 k for that new truck; (5) that boat to catch a few fish. . . .

In the end, not everyone is interested in a quarter miler.

And, by the way, a $2,000.00 for an overdrive on a truck I drive figures out to $11.00 a year. You could say even less, if you factored in fuel savings.


"Don't we get this conversation every 2 or three months on getting more mileage? What's the point. If you want good mileage buy a prius. If you want to regularly drive a 40 some year old truck, just pay the price. You can spend thousands to save pennies."

 

[peats]

Yea I have swapped seats, Lexus Rx 350 in the '81 and Lexus rx330 in the '72 . Not afraid to upgrade my ride as I drive them daily. Not sure what your point is. Also leather Silverado steering wheels in both.