Dana 60 axle play

[Trucksareforwork]

I’m progressively getting into this Dana 60 on my k3500 side project and not liking what I’m finding.

Here’s the play in driver side ( front) axle at the cv joint after I removed the hub.

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I have to assume this is not normal. Tell me what I likely need to replace. (Sigh).

 

[legopnuematic]

New knuckle u joint as long as it hasn't worn through the caps and new seal (since you are already almost there anyways).

The axle shafts are supported by the carrier/spider gears and at the hub itself, with the hub removed it will be sort of floppy with the play in the splines at the carrier.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Thanks. So there’s not an intermediate bearing inboard of the knuckle? I have been outside and haven’t looked it up, but that was my fear…that an inboard bearing was toast.

 

[nvrenuf]

Yep, bad ujoint.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Thanks. So there’s not an intermediate bearing inboard of the knuckle? I have been outside and haven’t looked it up, but that was my fear…that an inboard bearing was toast.

No, and the only seal is near the center section. It's a dry tube with no bearing support.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Alright. This thread is named appropriately because I’m going to be playing with the axle for a while. Got into it this morning. Advice please.

Here are the upper kingpins. Despite the driver side having broken nylon bushing, it didn’t look too chewed up. The passenger side is scored pretty much all the way around. Replace? Send it? Thoughts?

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[Trucksareforwork]

Lower king pins looked clean.

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I’m at that stage where I’m so far into this thing that I need to know what to just go ahead and do.


I had already planned and prepared for:
- hub bearings and seals
- all steering components (tie rods and ends)

Now I have added:

- axle u joints
- spindle needle bearings

And it’s looking like I need to do:
- upper king pins?
- lower bearings and seals?

What else?

The axles were sealed nicely and the diff oil was nice and clean. I want advice: I’d prefer to leave well enough alone on that. Is it advisable to go ahead and do those seals since I’m already into it this far? I really don’t have a great desire to drop the carrier out but am fully equipped to do it since it doesn’t appear to require expertise like a rear end setup does.

Last question: when I dropped the spindles, the driver side had a copper/brass washer inboard of the needle bearings. The passenger side did not. Why would this be different? Do I need to watch for axle thrust?

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[legopnuematic]

Personally I'd do axle shaft seals while you are there. It is not uncommon for a seal that was not leaking, to begin leaking once the shaft is removed and reinstalled. Cheap insurance in my opinion.

The shims should be mounted inboard of the carrier bearings, if they aren't, just keep track side to side. No setup or anything required. Just remove caps (keep track of what side, should be marked, if not put a couple dimples on each). Pull carrier, knock seals in, clean tubes, install new seals, carrier in, caps on, done.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Any opinion on my upper king pins? I assume swap is the safe thing there?

 

[nvrenuf]

The problem with king pins is the torque value is like 600 ftlbs so if you go down that path make sure you’re ready.

For me, I did not replace my king pins. Mine looked like your first pic, smooth and pretty. I probably wouldn’t replace mine unless they were cracked (check closely around the top hex opening) or heavily grooved.

The second pic looks like it’s scored with lines like an old record, I probably still wouldn’t replace that (unless cracked or deep grooves) but check it when you periodically repack the wheel bearings. That’s easy to maintenance since you can just pull the cap and check/replace the bushings.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

The problem with king pins is the torque value is like 600 ftlbs so if you go down that path make sure you’re ready.

For me, I did not replace my king pins. Mine looked like your first pic, smooth and pretty. I probably wouldn’t replace mine unless they were cracked (check closely around the top hex opening) or heavily grooved.

The second pic looks like it’s scored with lines like an old record, I probably still wouldn’t replace that (unless cracked or deep grooves) but check it when you periodically repack the wheel bearings. That’s easy to maintenance since you can just pull the cap and check/replace the bushings.

Helpful. The grooves are like a record. It’s clear in the pic but it almost looks like I wiped it and left grease trails. They are enough to catch a fingernail. The driver side is basically smooth.

I’m aware of the torque value. I have no idea how I would measure that. Biggest torque wrench I have is 250 lbs I think. Saw a picture of a guy using a comealong to install some.

Good point about being easy to check. I hadn’t thought about that. True enough.

Any idea how to assess the lowers? They were snug and the pins are clean. Do the bearings wear often?

The truck was a farm truck and has 85k indicated. This far a lot of what I’m finding is more age related than abuse.

 

[nvrenuf]

If you’re using nylon bushings I’d run that kin pin. If you’re going to bronze bushings then the grooves may accelerate wear.

The lower king pin looked good, same deal as the uppers with respect to wear marks. Check the bearing the same as a wheel bearing - the race should be tight and no brinelling of its surface or the bearing rollers. Also, check the cage vs roller fit for wear on the bearing.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Thanks for the exchange. Helps me think it through and not just buy stuff.

I’m leaning toward just running them. I had already bought new nylon bushings and had planned to swap them.

I’ll check the lower bearings.

I probably won’t put 2000 miles a year on the truck though I will definitely use it off-road on the farm plenty. Whoever had it after me will get a full briefing on any watchouts, I’m sure.

I have other items to address after the axle.

I think I’m taking away that I will do the inner axle seals and leave the kingpins for the next go round assuming the lower bearings dont look bad. They were loaded w grease this morning and I didn’t look too closely after seeing the pins in good shape.

 

[bucket]

I'd run those king pins without a second thought.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Finally got back to this and made a bunch of progress today but not as much as I thought I would.

As an organized and very careful worker (nope.) I wanted to work the axles from inside to outside. So of course I started with the inner axle seals. I probably should have known that reassembly would be a bear when the carrier didn’t come out with the rag trick. It barely moved. I resorted to some mild slide hammer action and got it out (put a chain behind it and pulled it out).

Got the seals out and replaced using a tool I bought off eBay for 25 bucks. That was money well spent. That part went pretty quickly.

Then it came time to put the carrier back in. I swear that thing wasn’t close to the same size as when it came out of the truck. Long story short after starting the wrestling match with it I probably spent more than 3 hours hands on over the course of the full day before finally being able to lube, hammer; and gently pry it back halfway in, and then used the bolts to bring it home.

I have always said that I don’t care to rebuild and transmission and I won’t set up a rear end. I thought this would be easy! Alls well that ends well but yikes.

During my breaks from cussing at the carrier, I watched football and replaced the axle u joints and the spindle needle bearings. The u joints were fully ragged out and original I think. Never seen some that bad. Took me a while to heat and lube them but finally knocked them hard enough to free them up.

I bought a puller specifically for the spindle nuts that was a lifesaver. It’s a pilot bearing puller and it saved me a lot of cussing.

I cleaned up a bunch of stuff in my free time as well and shot some rattle can on them. Why? I don’t know.

The knuckles have dirt and grease so ingrained I thought it was metal before the wire wheel bit into it. Pic of the inside of one knuckle that I soaked in vinegar and wire wheeled below. It will clean up nicely but I think that dirt is from the Paleolithic era.

Speaking of that, while under the truck I noticed that the engine has a gm reman tag on the driver side of the block. It’s tagged 30 over and has a serial number but I couldn’t figure out the date code and didn’t take the time to clean that up. That’s later.

Wife and kids are out of town so perhaps I can make more progress tomorrow as well. That is, if I can still walk after getting under the truck and doing carrier crunches 50 times today. The irony is I have a lift but the truck isn’t mobile.

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