battery post mystery

[AuroraGirl]

Um, no. Clean the terminals and drive away

cleaning the terminals on a battery with no charge wont help with the no charge part.

 

[DoubleDingo]

cleaning the terminals on a battery with no charge wont help with the no charge part.

Never said it had no charge. It just does what the OP mentioned in post #1. No rhyme or reason and completely unpredictable. I mean, I can drive it to work and it'll crank over just fine, and go to leave at lunch, and click. Clean things up, and off I go.

 

[Octane]

I've heard of starter relays going bad and being intermittent.I had some acid saturated cables that would occasionally click a couple times.But this is rather weird.I dont think you have a relay anyway tho I dont reckon.

 

[DoubleDingo]

I've heard of starter relays going bad and being intermittent.I had some acid saturated cables that would occasionally click a couple times.But this is rather weird.I dont think you have a relay anyway tho I dont reckon.

If you are referring to my posts, yes I have a starter relay. It's not that. Just connections needing to be cleaned, even though they appear to be clean.

 

[Octane]

If you are referring to my posts, yes I have a starter relay. It's not that. Just connections needing to be cleaned, even though they appear to be clean.

But they can cause the failures to start tho.And disconnecting power and reconnecting can cause then to work again ..tho intermittently at best

 

[DoubleDingo]

But they can cause the failures to start tho.And disconnecting power and reconnecting can cause then to work again ..tho intermittently at best

If it was the relay, it never failed completely, and it's OEM from 1991

 

[Octane]

But a relay doesnt have to fail completely, but okay.

 

[SirRobyn0]

A few pages back we talked about CCA and sealed top vs caps. It just so happened that I had to replace the battery on my lawn tractor. Unfortunately for me, unless I want to order one and wait I'm stuck getting one at the local auto parts store which means a super start battery. Not one of my preferred brands but the last one was date stamped 6-14 so 7 1/2 years is pretty darn good. So my lawn tractor calls for a 220CCA battery, so naturally I don't buy that one, the previous one was 345CCA, the new one is 350CCA. But they are all sealed tops grr. Well I bought it any way because I need it now. If it lasts like the old one did then that's just fine, not then I'll have to plan ahead for the next battery and order the flavor of my choice. Oh and I pealed up a bit of the label on the new one to see what's under it, there are 6 plugs, they do not look threaded, they look adhered down. Two vents one on each side.

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[AuroraGirl]

Never said it had no charge. It just does what the OP mentioned in post #1. No rhyme or reason and completely unpredictable. I mean, I can drive it to work and it'll crank over just fine, and go to leave at lunch, and click. Clean things up, and off I go.

OHH I get you now.

 

[AuroraGirl]

A few pages back we talked about CCA and sealed top vs caps. It just so happened that I had to replace the battery on my lawn tractor. Unfortunately for me, unless I want to order one and wait I'm stuck getting one at the local auto parts store which means a super start battery. Not one of my preferred brands but the last one was date stamped 6-14 so 7 1/2 years is pretty darn good. So my lawn tractor calls for a 220CCA battery, so naturally I don't buy that one, the previous one was 345CCA, the new one is 350CCA. But they are all sealed tops grr. Well I bought it any way because I need it now. If it lasts like the old one did then that's just fine, not then I'll have to plan ahead for the next battery and order the flavor of my choice. Oh and I pealed up a bit of the label on the new one to see what's under it, there are 6 plugs, they do not look threaded, they look adhered down. Two vents one on each side.

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Ive only seen caps on the lawn trac bateries sold from menards under a weird not ac delco name but I forget, i think FVP like the fluids too? Maybe. those had caps this last summer.

Then , DEKA batteries, which around this corner of the northwoods you find at auto-value chain stores but they are only in 5-8 ish states hugging the north, center, and upper states so midwest a good chunk and then over by Indiana and Ohio I think. Not sure where one finds deka other than as someones core LOL
ill sell you a walmart one from the 80s if you want some caps i bet its just needs a lil topping off

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ive only seen caps on the lawn trac bateries sold from menards under a weird not ac delco name but I forget, i think FVP like the fluids too? Maybe. those had caps this last summer.

Then , DEKA batteries, which around this corner of the northwoods you find at auto-value chain stores but they are only in 5-8 ish states hugging the north, center, and upper states so midwest a good chunk and then over by Indiana and Ohio I think. Not sure where one finds deka other than as someones core LOL
ill sell you a walmart one from the 80s if you want some caps i bet its just needs a lil topping off

Well, probably needs more than just topping off, give it a little salt, drain it out, fill it with fresh acid, give it an aspirin (cause you know it's arthritic at it's age) and I'm sure it'll change and go another 30 - 40 years. Good think no one else knows ours secret to battery longevity. Seriously though I'm not against seal top batteries, I just like to be able to look in there and check. If it lasts a reasonable number of years, doesn't have to even be as long as the last one but I'd like 5 years. If it does that I'm good with that and won't be concerned when I buy the next one.

 

[Turbo4whl]

About low maintenance batteries.... The real thing that changed to make batteries in general lower maintenance has been improved charging systems. The biggest thing that depletes the water in the battery is charging cycles or worse yet over charging. Back in the 50's, 60's and even in to the first part of the 70's point type regulators were common. They'd get dirty, misadjusted worn whatever, or came right out of the box charging to high, that would really deplete the water. As electronic regulators came to be charging systems got more stable and better able to react to different needs for power. Less water was consumed. Battery plate technology improved some too. So those first "Seal top" batteries like the "maintenance free" GM batteries, it really wasn't that the battery was different it was that the charging systems were better.

I still think, even with todays computer controlled charging systems that a battery with caps is better simply because sometimes water does need to be added, and without caps there is no way to check and fill. Also it's the only way to tell cell to cell what is happening inside the battery.

Actually there was a major change in maintenance free batteries. Older batteries had the plates mounted in the middle of the case. When the plates would start to disintegrate from use, the metal that became dislodged fell off and dropped to the bottom of the case. If this metal could not fall clear, the plates will short, battery would fail.

With improved designs in the plates, this did not happen. So now the plates are mounted near the bottom of the case, which allows the electrolit to become lower over the years, but still cover the plates.

The inside top of the battery case was also redesigned to help better condense the vapor and keep it inside.

Something to remember, the chemical reaction in the battery moves metal back and forth from the negative and positive plates. The old batteries, if you looked at old worn our plates, they look fuzzy, also bloated. The metal did not move evenly.

 

[SirRobyn0]

About low maintenance batteries.... The real thing that changed to make batteries in general lower maintenance has been improved charging systems. The biggest thing that depletes the water in the battery is charging cycles or worse yet over charging. Back in the 50's, 60's and even in to the first part of the 70's point type regulators were common. They'd get dirty, misadjusted worn whatever, or came right out of the box charging to high, that would really deplete the water. As electronic regulators came to be charging systems got more stable and better able to react to different needs for power. Less water was consumed. Battery plate technology improved some too. So those first "Seal top" batteries like the "maintenance free" GM batteries, it really wasn't that the battery was different it was that the charging systems were better.

I still think, even with todays computer controlled charging systems that a battery with caps is better simply because sometimes water does need to be added, and without caps there is no way to check and fill. Also it's the only way to tell cell to cell what is happening inside the battery.

Actually there was a major change in maintenance free batteries. Older batteries had the plates mounted in the middle of the case. When the plates would start to disintegrate from use, the metal that became dislodged fell off and dropped to the bottom of the case. If this metal could not fall clear, the plates will short, battery would fail.

With improved designs in the plates, this did not happen. So now the plates are mounted near the bottom of the case, which allows the electrolit to become lower over the years, but still cover the plates.

The inside top of the battery case was also redesigned to help better condense the vapor and keep it inside.

Something to remember, the chemical reaction in the battery moves metal back and forth from the negative and positive plates. The old batteries, if you looked at old worn our plates, they look fuzzy, also bloated. The metal did not move evenly.

I never said that there weren't technology changes in batteries, heck I even said battery plate technology improved. but those changes that you elaborated on are found in both maintenance free and serviceable type batteries. Charging systems improved to, and I think if we never advanced beyond the charging systems of the 50's and 60's we never would have had maintenance free batteries.

 

[Raider L]

@AuroraGirl, SirRobyn0,
Now, you've spoke of dumping out the battery acid before and refilling the battery back up, recharge it and that's like starting over. If you were to do this, what kind of acid is the kind to put in a battery and where do you get it? I've seen plastic bottles of Sulfuric acid at Walmart that I think is for plumbing. Surely not that stuff is it? And if you dumped it out would you "wash" it out to get as much of the flakey stuff in there out before you pour in the acid?
The reason why I ask is I have an old battery out of my Honda and before I put it up I charged it and kept checking the cells until each one was 100% specific gravity. Then capped it up and set it out in my shop. I guess it's been out there for maybe eighteen months, maybe. I'll check it first but if it's dead what would you suggest to bring it back? It was a good battery when I pulled it out, just it was a three year battery that had three years on it.

 

[SirRobyn0]

@AuroraGirl, SirRobyn0,
Now, you've spoke of dumping out the battery acid before and refilling the battery back up, recharge it and that's like starting over. If you were to do this, what kind of acid is the kind to put in a battery and where do you get it? I've seen plastic bottles of Sulfuric acid at Walmart that I think is for plumbing. Surely not that stuff is it? And if you dumped it out would you "wash" it out to get as much of the flakey stuff in there out before you pour in the acid?
The reason why I ask is I have an old battery out of my Honda and before I put it up I charged it and kept checking the cells until each one was 100% specific gravity. Then capped it up and set it out in my shop. I guess it's been out there for maybe eighteen months, maybe. I'll check it first but if it's dead what would you suggest to bring it back? It was a good battery when I pulled it out, just it was a three year battery that had three years on it.

Do NOT dump and refill. Any references I made to that was in jest. In the old days sometimes guys would try to take a battery with a dead cell and "try" to clean it out so it would work again. If it worked it at all it was not like a new battery but more like a functional used battery. You'd be far better off checking it out and if needed charging it up as you would with any other battery and putting it back into service. A three year old battery in good health would be very likely come back no problem with just a check and if needed a charge.