Help me build my truck - What should I do?

[Hunter79764]

You and I have a lot of the same goals. Really, most of the goals are the same. Except I want more power available, so there will be an overdrive unit in front of the SM465 and 4:56 gears in the axles, and tires in the 35"/36" range.

I'm watching... 4.56 would be great but definitely needs OD. You doing a standalone OD unit, or is that code for NV4500? Any other combo I'm not thinking of?
And based on similar goals, what's your thoughts on stick vs automatic? Should I really reconsider just slapping a 4L80 in it and go? I feel like that isn't the wrong choice, but it seems like it could be a lot cooler rowing my own gears... (btw, my current DD is stick, and probably 1/3 of cars I've had in the last 20 years are too. I enjoy them, and I get tired of them, I get an auto and love that for a while, then enjoy stickshift again after that...)

Yeah, '85+ are all hydraulic and the bodies are dimpled where the clutch master cylinder mounts and on the trans hump where the shifter hole is. I retro fitted a 4spd in my 91 Blazer and it was super easy.

The hydraulic pedals are nice and operate smoothly but I can't say they behave very differently from the mechanical pedals in my old K10. There is certainly a difference in pedal feel but the operation is no different (assuming the body mounts are good so there is not different movement of body vs frame).

If I was building a street truck to do light wheeling or overlanding I'd use an off the shelf lift kit with good shocks (ie; not Rough Country). You can move the front spring, rear upper hangers to achieve a better shackle angle giving improved ride and a little more flex.

As a set, the highest matching ratio for a D60 / 14 bolt combo is 3.73.

That aligns with what I was thinking on hydraulics, I currently hate fluids (I am having a few issues on the DD fleet, nothing crazy, but enough to make me think a steel bar is better than yet another fluid reservoir, cylinder, and line set) but going with the later style is probably the easiest option. And I was just thinking about that on the axle ratio, 3.54 is the tallest Dana 60 available but 3.73 is likely the tallest generally in existence. If I keep the 10 bolt front, I suppose there's more options but that seems like a foolhardy move if I want it to be relatively bulletproof. At <5000 miles per year, I really can't justify expensive changes for MPG benefit. If I go from 10 to 12 mpg, that saves $250/year. It will take a decade to pay off anything reasonable, so it is really just for warm fuzzies. The engine is fine, I run my motorhome at ~2500 rpm and 80% load every trip I take for hours on end without a whimper, as long as I don't think about it.

Well, whatever you decide when (if) it ever gets finished it will cost 3x the budget, take 3x longer than expected, still get 10 mpg, still be hot, rough and noisy and the best engine oil will still be 10W40. But hey, that's how you build character

While I generally agree, I'm an engineer and project manager for my day job, and my general approach is to spend 3x as long thinking about it and planning, researching the challenges and options ahead of time, then getting a budget together with reasonable detail and reasonable contingency based on the amount of research I've done. And then knowing that it will take longer than I think/want/it should... It tends to keep me relatively accurate, and also shoots down 80% of the things I want to do when I determine it gets too far out of hand
That's why I'm breaking this one down into prioritized chunks, trying to decide what is sacrificial vs what I really want to get out of it. I've done swaps, rebuilds, and other projects before and typically come in right at budget with results I expect, it just takes a year or more to actually start turning wrenches. This time I've got more money and less time available, but I still think the key is not buying things twice, which means nailing down the transmission and front axle choices.


I'm loving the feedback, everyone, thank you for it.

 

[bucket]

I'm watching... 4.56 would be great but definitely needs OD. You doing a standalone OD unit, or is that code for NV4500? Any other combo I'm not thinking of?
And based on similar goals, what's your thoughts on stick vs automatic? Should I really reconsider just slapping a 4L80 in it and go? I feel like that isn't the wrong choice, but it seems like it could be a lot cooler rowing my own gears... (btw, my current DD is stick, and probably 1/3 of cars I've had in the last 20 years are too. I enjoy them, and I get tired of them, I get an auto and love that for a while, then enjoy stickshift again after that...)


That aligns with what I was thinking on hydraulics, I currently hate fluids (I am having a few issues on the DD fleet, nothing crazy, but enough to make me think a steel bar is better than yet another fluid reservoir, cylinder, and line set) but going with the later style is probably the easiest option. And I was just thinking about that on the axle ratio, 3.54 is the tallest Dana 60 available but 3.73 is likely the tallest generally in existence. If I keep the 10 bolt front, I suppose there's more options but that seems like a foolhardy move if I want it to be relatively bulletproof. At <5000 miles per year, I really can't justify expensive changes for MPG benefit. If I go from 10 to 12 mpg, that saves $250/year. It will take a decade to pay off anything reasonable, so it is really just for warm fuzzies. The engine is fine, I run my motorhome at ~2500 rpm and 80% load every trip I take for hours on end without a whimper, as long as I don't think about it.


While I generally agree, I'm an engineer and project manager for my day job, and my general approach is to spend 3x as long thinking about it and planning, researching the challenges and options ahead of time, then getting a budget together with reasonable detail and reasonable contingency based on the amount of research I've done. And then knowing that it will take longer than I think/want/it should... It tends to keep me relatively accurate, and also shoots down 80% of the things I want to do when I determine it gets too far out of hand
That's why I'm breaking this one down into prioritized chunks, trying to decide what is sacrificial vs what I really want to get out of it. I've done swaps, rebuilds, and other projects before and typically come in right at budget with results I expect, it just takes a year or more to actually start turning wrenches. This time I've got more money and less time available, but I still think the key is not buying things twice, which means nailing down the transmission and front axle choices.


I'm loving the feedback, everyone, thank you for it.

4.56 gears don't really NEED an overdrive, but it would certainly be beneficial with a lot of interstate use. I run a 4.56/36" combo in my 454 crew cab and honestly, it's not that bad at all.

For my Suburban, the combo will be 8.1 vortec, sm465 with a ranger gear splitter (the OD version), a hydro clutch (I've found them to be more reliable and simpler with less moving parts), np205, m1008 axles, and 35" or 36" tires. Amount of lift is currently undecided because more recently I've been thinking about running 33's. I want it to be a rig that I can use on a regular basis, pull heavy loads, go camping in, or go on trips out of state.

I thought about using an automatic and it certainly wouldn't be a "wrong" choice, but I prefer to shift my own gears in most cases and I never get tired of it because so many of my vehicles have an automatic.

I too have been planning for a long time. 6 or 7 years now at least. I've been acquiring parts this whole time and finally have everything I need, now I just need to find the time to do it all.

 

[nvrenuf]

@hunter7
And I was just thinking about that on the axle ratio, 3.54 is the tallest Dana 60 available but 3.73 is likely the tallest generally in existence.

You're limitation will be the 14 bolt FF, you can get a 3.73 or lower pretty easy. There is a 3.21 out there but there's no matching front axle ratio.

There are some higher ratios available for the 14 bolt semi floater but it's smaller, lighter duty axle.

 

[Hunter79764]

You're limitation will be the 14 bolt FF, you can get a 3.73 or lower pretty easy. There is a 3.21 out there but there's no matching front axle ratio.

There are some higher ratios available for the 14 bolt semi floater but it's smaller, lighter duty axle.

That makes sense. And to clarify, I currently have the SF rear, but expect that I'll swap to a FF at some point. I'm keeping an eye out for a complete parts truck, but dragging one home is likely to get me in trouble. Probably need it to be set up as a camper, since I might have to live in it if my wife sees me drag home another non-working vehicle...

 

[bucket]

The ambulance vans I've been buying recently have the 14ff with 3.54 gears.

 

[Hunter79764]

Well, with any luck I have a few less options to consider after tomorrow. An NV4500 with most of the accessories popped up on marketplace for a good price, I'll be bringing cash out there tomorrow. No transfer case, but has the shifter, bellhousing and slave cylinder parts as well as the transfer case adapter to the round pattern NP, meaning I could just plop my existing np208 in there and have the 2.8:1 gearing or find a round pattern np205 like I planned. We'll see how that goes, I'm not too worried about that decision just yet.

 

[Old Guy Bill]

Keep saving....

 

[legopnuematic]

Wouldn't be cheap, but a passenger drop NP241 could be an option for a T-case. Can't be setup with a doubler though like a 205.

 

[Hunter79764]

Well, after all my talk about carefully planning instead of rushing in to a project, I suppose I'll happily eat some crow now. Found a good deal on an NV4500 5 speed stick and made the call to pull the trigger on it. While I was there talking with the guy, he had the 203 and kit for a doubler for another good deal, so it looks like I'm going with the 5 speed, the doubler, and hydraulic clutch. And that about wraps up the major components on the drivetrain, the rest is small stuff that I have a pretty good handle on i think.

On the rest, I'm leaning towards doing about a 4" lift springs setup up front, probably the Tough Country (getting the regular springs, i believe taking out the last leaf makes it an EZ Ride but with the 8.1, I think I'll need it?). Rear, probably a shackle flip and my factory 56" springs for 4" there too?
If I leave my stock axles in until I find a good deal on the right 60/14BFF, will I need to change driveshafts for the axle swap? I know I will to fit the new trans setup, I'd rather not do it twice.

 

[nvrenuf]

Congrats on the parts, sounds like a great combo. I wish I had bought a 4500 instead of sinking money in my 465, I could use the overdrive.

It’s hard to say on the driveshafts but I’d bet the length on the front will be different. The rear is a maybe because the 14ff has a short pinion.

Something else to consider is the ujoint size at the rear axle, the 14ff uses a 1350 joint which may be different than your current one. There are conversion ujoints available though.

 

[bucket]

Iirc, Tuff County doesn't recommend using the EZ Ride springs with a big block. But I could just be dreaming that up.

You "should" be able to swap the rear axle later on and reuse the shaft, but you'll probably find it to be about 2" short of ideal.

 

[Turbo4whl]

Since you called out the NV4500, I'll throw out to you and others reading this thread my couple pennies... I have one in my '98 3500HD. Much nicer than the 465 I put years and miles on in the '74. One note that might be good to know, 1998 was the last year, no synchros on first gear. Starting 1999, all 5 gears with synchronizers.

 

[Hunter79764]

Iirc, Tuff County doesn't recommend using the EZ Ride springs with a big block. But I could just be dreaming that up.

You "should" be able to swap the rear axle later on and reuse the shaft, but you'll probably find it to be about 2" short of ideal.

Yep, I'm thinking I need the regular ones, which is EZ ride plus a stiff leaf. I may go so far as to break down the pack and add liners or something similar to get good flex and movement, but I might also just slap them in. I DON'T want the stiff, jittery "lift kit" ride but I also recognize that I've got a lot of front end weight to hold up. I doubt it's in the budget for a set of custom springs, unfortunately.

Since you called out the NV4500, I'll throw out to you and others reading this thread my couple pennies... I have one in my '98 3500HD. Much nicer than the 465 I put years and miles on in the '74. One note that might be good to know, 1998 was the last year, no synchros on first gear. Starting 1999, all 5 gears with synchronizers.

This one is a 93 or 94, early lower geared 1st, but possibly non synchro 1st and R(?) And I think there's some notes about more prone to rough shifts. This one seems to feel ok so far, but of course it's hard to tell just sitting on a tailgate, running the shifter through the gears...

 

[Hunter79764]

Congrats on the parts, sounds like a great combo. I wish I had bought a 4500 instead of sinking money in my 465, I could use the overdrive.

It’s hard to say on the driveshafts but I’d bet the length on the front will be different. The rear is a maybe because the 14ff has a short pinion.

Something else to consider is the ujoint size at the rear axle, the 14ff uses a 1350 joint which may be different than your current one. There are conversion ujoints available though.

Thanks, yeah, its the combo I wanted but didnt think I could pull together...

This is what my gut says too on the driveshafts. I'll see what happens on axles, driveshafts will be one of the last things anyway.

 

[CountKrunk]

Interior, AC, comfortable reliable ride is my vote.