New Ruptured Rocker arms

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Old Scott

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Posts
9
Reaction score
2
Location
E-town PA
First Name
Scott
Truck Year
1987
Truck Model
R10 Suburban
Engine Size
5.7 litre
1987 R10 Suburban 5.7 liter. 180 thousand miles and I wanted a mild boost in power. Working with a local shop we decided to go with an aftermarket cam and heads. Just got the motor back and was almost at 500 miles when a push rod pushed through a rocker arm. The rebuild shop installed another rocker arm after I towed it there. Take it home and rebuild the TBI to solve a fuel issue. Still running very bad because of another rocker arm failure. This one is #6 intake. These are roller rockers on aftermarket heads.
The build shop said they would replace the rocker arms with better quality parts. I'm concerned that the valve geometry is causing the excess stress.

How can I check this ?
 

chengny

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Posts
4,086
Reaction score
1,008
Location
NH
First Name
Jerry
Truck Year
1986
Truck Model
K3500
Engine Size
350/5.7
Some basic info on valve geometry below. You didn't mention whether you installed new push rods:

Pushrod Length:

One thing that most people overlook is the pushrod length. Milling the heads, block, using a thicker or thinner gasket, new valves or even just a valve job can change the required length. Aftermarket heads with longer valves will also change the required length. Any time any part of the valvetrain is changed, the geometry should be checked. Changing the pushrod length is the easiest way to change the rocker to valve tip contact point, in most cases the pushrod length can be adjusted to compensate for best power and reliability. Is some rare cases, the rocker stud might have to be relocated, like when 1.7 big-block rockers are used on a small-block Chevy or when a longer valve is used in a stock head (this is usually only a problem when the valve is +.200" or more).

Checking Pushrod Length:

A rockers pivot point is lower than the pushrod cup and the valve contact points for a good reason, so the wiping action across the valve tip is the greatest at the lowest spring pressures, this helps reduce guide wear. When higher than stock lifts or any of the modifications listed above are done, the pushrod might be too long. This would cause more side loads at peak lift, which is where spring forces are the greatest. Imagine a line from the center of the pivot point to the valve tip contact point. As that line passes 90° of the valve stem, the wiping action across the valve tip is minimal. So it makes sense to put that point where the spring forces are highest. For best valve guide life that point should be at about 2/3 of peak lift. If the rocker pivot point is in the correct place, the tip should be in the center of that valve at that point also. To figure the best length, you must use an adjustable pushrod and adjust it until you get what you need, you can then order a set of pushrods the same size as you adjustable one, you should do this with a solid lifter to avoid any leak down and remember add any hydraulic pre load to the length. Manley offers an inexpensive pushrod length checkers for most popular engines, these work fine if you know how to use them, and most people don't. For an example, the tool to check length on a small-block Chevy is set to check correct length with 0.600" lift at the valve. If your valve lift is not 0.600" you will need to do some math, or you can just use it as a starting point to adjust your adjustable pushrod. Manley will provide you with the information needed for your application. On a small-block Chevy, any lift more than 0.600" gets multiplied times 0.22 and that is subtracted from the pushrod length. So if the valve is lifted 0.650", you will need to multiply 0.22 with 0.050 and the pushrod will need to be 0.011" shorter than measured. If the valve is lifted less than 0.600", you take a different approach. Subtract your lift from 0.600 and divide it by 3. Then take a feeler gauge of that thickness and put on the valve tip when checking length. If your valve lift is 0.500" the difference would be 0.100", divide it by three to get 0.033", now insert a feeler gauge of that size between the checker and the valve, and the measured length will be correct. Once you adjust the pushrod to the right length, you can then measure it and order the correct length pushrods.The pictures shows the Manley pushrod length checker for small-block Chevy engines. The engine here has a cam with 0.510" lift. In order to get the proper length, I need to subtract 0.510 from 0.600 to get 0.090". 0.090 divided by 3 is 0.030. One last thing to consider on a hydraulic cam is that when you pre load the lifters, the plunger will change the pushrod position. A 3/8" rocker stud has 24 threads per inch. You generally pre load the lifters about 1/2 turn, which will put the pushrod about 0.021" lower. This needs to be considered as well. So I need a 0.021" as well as a 0.030" shim on the valve tip to make my measurement. I simply put 0.051" feeler gauge on the tip of the valve between under the checker. Now I just need to adjust the checker pushrod to just touch the checker, lock it, and pull it out to measure it. In my case, with the hydraulic roller, the length cam out to 7.345" long. It so happens that 7.350" is a popular size, and that's pretty darn close, so that's what's going in. Pushrods generally come in 0.050" increments. It's better to go a bit long that short, so it's better to round up unless you are less than 0.015" short.

Geometry For Best Power:

Setting the correct pushrod length will get the most mileage out of the valve guides, but when radical cams are used they might not be the best for power output. What many engine builders don't realize is that the rocker ratio is not constant. The rocker ratio changes through the lift cycle due to the geometry, this gives a chance to change the lift curve slightly. On most engines, the peak piston velocity will fall in between 73 and 78° after TDC, so the higher you can get the intake valve lifted at that point the easier it will be to fill the cylinder. Once you get the pushrod length correct, try adjusting the rod a little longer and shorter. See where the point is that you get maximum lift at 75° ATDC. On most engines this should be pretty close to the correct length. You will also find that when geometry is optimized for performance, the point of maximum rocker ratio will be close to TDC. After you find the best lift at 75° ATDC go back and recheck your rocker to valve contact point. The geometry for best power will usually be close to what was measured. Small details like this could mean 10 hp on a 500hp race engine, so it pays to check. I have heard a more than once that the proper length pushrod will give the highest peak lift, this is simply not true. You want as much lift as you can get at peak piston speed, which is the hight airflow demand. With todays technology, we just can't get the valves open fast enough. The point of peak airflow demand comes somewhere between 73 and 78° after TDC, but we can't get peak valve lift until more than 100° after TDC. What I'm getting at is that if the piston speed peaks at 75° ATDC and peak valve lift is at 108° ATDC, extra lift will help more at 75° ATDC than it will at 108° ATDC.
 

chengny

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Posts
4,086
Reaction score
1,008
Location
NH
First Name
Jerry
Truck Year
1986
Truck Model
K3500
Engine Size
350/5.7
The Variables

These are just some of the variables that will affect pushrod length and thus valve geometry:

* Block deck height
* Rocker ratio
* Mechanical versus hydraulic cam
* Small-base-circle cams
* Different intake and exhaust base circles
* Valve installed height
* Lash caps
* Variations between manufacturers' rocker designs
* Rocker-stud runout


You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach
 

89Suburban

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Posts
24,541
Reaction score
5,846
Location
Southeast PA
First Name
Paw Paw
Truck Year
2007
Truck Model
Chevrolet Tahoe LT
Engine Size
5.3, 4WD
Dang....
 

Green79Scottsdale

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Posts
2,834
Reaction score
7,483
Location
G.R. - MI
First Name
Bob
Truck Year
1979
Truck Model
K20
Engine Size
400
Not sure on the specs of all your stuff, but I have this story to offer...

Kid at work tore down the small block from his recently acquired 57 Chevy. He knew he needed to replace a rocker. He got to investigating stuff within the head and noticed some of his valve stems were mushroomed over. Long story short, valve springs were binding at higher rpm's causing the rockers to fracture at the fulcrum point. The geometry looked good the whole time this was happening too.
 

bucket

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Posts
29,146
Reaction score
24,098
Location
Usually not in Ohio
First Name
Andy
Truck Year
'77, '78, '79, '84, '88
Truck Model
K5 thru K30
Engine Size
350-454
I bought a '70 Impala that had a fresh cam in the original and otherwise untouched 350. After driving some miles, it fractured a rocker arm. Replaced it along with another that was starting to fail. Drove it a little while longer and it fractured another rocker arm. I replaced that one and it has ran fine since, but I also haven't run it much. Checked clearances and they are good. I just chocked it up to fatigued 40 year old rockers that failed with a higher lift cam (and more spring pressure). I intend to replace all the rockers before driving very far from home.

It could just be a really low quality set of rockers.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
42,206
Posts
911,336
Members
33,705
Latest member
flynhigh88
Top