Emmisions Discussion

[HotRodPC]

Well, you must remember....the gas crisis of the 80's had the car companies scrambling to lower consumption. My dad used to drive my truck to work daily and it was like 45 min each way. Doing that on the highway would yield some advantage to 3.08s or 2.73s. I believe that was a way they could get another 1 or 2 mpg of hwy mileage out of 'em for the marketing folks.

You're right about a crisis causing this to happen in the 80's. But, lets get the crisis on the gear ratios correct. The Federal Gubment was the crisis and I'll leave the politics out of it. So moving on, the tall gear ratios were not necessarily to improve mpg. Even the auto manufactuers aren't stupid enough to beleive tall gear saves fuel. The reason for the tall gears and to run LOWER RPM, was to meet Gubment regulation on HC, CO and NOx readings, which are Hydro Carbrons, Carbon Monoxide and Oxides of Nitrogen which pollute the air. So with vehicles running a lower rpm and they polluting less and the manufactuers were able to have an AVERAGE fleet that met requiremnts. And for all those that say all the "SMOG ****" is bad. I reasonablly disagree. The smog **** isn't that bad and thanks for computer controlled autos, we don't know "SMOG ****" as we used to know it in the 80's. My only issues with smog devices are that they are in my way when working on the vehicle, and some devices hamper me wanting to put high performacne parts on, past that, most of the smog devices are no big deal and well worth having IMO. Maybe is we were all CA smog techs at one time and really understood smog devices, then we'd all agree, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

 

[dhamp]

you're right about a crisis causing this to happen in the 80's. But, lets get the crisis on the gear ratios correct. The federal gubment was the crisis and i'll leave the politics out of it. So moving on, the tall gear ratios were not necessarily to improve mpg. Even the auto manufactuers aren't stupid enough to beleive tall gear saves fuel. The reason for the tall gears and to run lower rpm, was to meet gubment regulation on hc, co and nox readings, which are hydro carbrons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen which pollute the air. So with vehicles running a lower rpm and they polluting less and the manufactuers were able to have an average fleet that met requiremnts. And for all those that say all the "smog ****" is bad. I reasonablly disagree. The smog **** isn't that bad and thanks for computer controlled autos, we don't know "smog ****" as we used to know it in the 80's. My only issues with smog devices are that they are in my way when working on the vehicle, and some devices hamper me wanting to put high performacne parts on, past that, most of the smog devices are no big deal and well worth having imo. Maybe is we were all ca smog techs at one time and really understood smog devices, then we'd all agree, but i don't expect everyone to agree with me.

ditto

 

[83K5guy]

i think egr's are the dumbest thing to me, it seems to gum/dirty more things than what its worth having on there.

 

[Christian Nelson]

I remember when I worked at a shop in the 90's when they used to do emissions testing in MN (thank God they came to their senses when they realized it had ZERO- YES ZERO effect on the air pollution #'s).. Biggest offender was the Ford escort, and Dodge Caravan/K cars. . Back then, they had what we liked to call "octopus engines".. Vacuum lines going every which way, and half of them would crack and leak like sieve's. One of the things we did as a shop was get these cars so they could pass the emissions tests. One of the big things that used to work was gutting EGR's, and welding them shut, bypassing the vacuum lines, but making them look like everything was hooked up, and running a pipe through the stupid plugged catalytic converter.

Before we'd work on them, the stupid pig's wouldn't get out of their own way, and the emissions were HORRIFIC!!! After this treatment, some of the emissions would be lower than right from the factory! The owners would marvel about how much more power they had, and how much better gas mileage they got.. I am convinced that especially the catalytics are just the result of lobbyists paying politicians enough $$ to force everyone to have to pay these companies for a product they would not ordinarily want on their car.

How many car fires I've seen caused by plugged cats, my father in law is an EMT, in the last 10 years it's not as bad as it used to be, but MAN in the n90's he'd swear there w as at least one per week on I-94..

Tune an engine to where it is burning clean, you don't need hardly any of these stupid mandatory things.

Wouldn't bother me as much if they just told auto makers their emissions had to be lower than x, and let them decide how, but to tell them how, with what devices to stuff in the tail pipe??? Ridiculous.

They ought to concentrate on better gas mileage, more complete burn, rather than let's stuff a potato in the tail pipe, and all's better..

 

[89Suburban]

i think egr's are the dumbest thing to me....

werd

 

[bucket]

i think egr's are the dumbest thing to me, it seems to gum/dirty more things than what its worth having on there.

Yup, the crap already blew out of the motor once, why do it again? It's like farting and then purposely breathing it back in.

 

[HotRodPC]

I have to admit, I'm not fond of EGR. It is a mess, and it only recirculates a small portion anyway, so for the damage EGR's do, that would be one device I tihnk could be avoided.

 

[89Suburban]

The thing that pisses me off about the EGR is the loss of vacuum when it kicks in.

 

[CaliDude76]

You all are soooo right... I have to have all that "SMOG CRAP" on my truck.
It leaves me very little "wiggle room" as far as any engine modification goes, seeings that I have a certain amount of tailpipe emmisions to play with. Unless your in good with a smog guy, who'll "Pass" your car illegally.. I have to have my smog pump... plumbing.. O2 sensor..properly functioning 'Check Engine Light'.... good Cat..proper gas cap.. etc..etc.. you can have an uphill battle trying to get that thing to pass.

These days the tolerence levels are getting tighter and tighter, literally forcing these older cars and trucks of the road.

Let alone the fact that it's a pain in the rear to even find a guy who is willing to go beyond just "testing" my truck, and really know how to adjust the carb accordingly to get it to pass (since all the cars are computer controlled). In Cali, if you try to run a smog check twice, and fail.. it locks out of the system in all of Cali all together.. until you go to a "referee" who is certified to say that there's something unfixable, or can do the work himself to pass it.

Gotta Love it!!!!!!

 

[dhamp]

How many years back do they go Calidude?

 

[CaliDude76]

How many years back do they go Calidude?

Anything older than 1975 is exempt... oh, and diesel engines are exempt all the way around..

Some guys have bought squares that came factory with diesel engines, and just threw gas engines in 'em. The DMV doesn't know the wiser, because the VIN will always state it's a diesel.

I'm also pretty sure you can legally run a newer engine and ECU set-up from anything close to what you have.... say... like a TBI 350 from a early 90's 'burb or blazer, but you have to take it down to the 'referee' I was saying earlier, and if it's a clean, legit upgrade/install, they'll sign it off as whatever year the engine came out of, and stick a bar code on somewhere that can be scanned by the smog tech.. So if I were to do that in my 84.. it would legally be smogged as if it were a 90 Blazer.. and the emmision reg's would change to that year, sometimes less restricted.

 

[HotRodPC]

Never know if I may end in Cali again, one reason, I have not yet scrapped the Cab and Vin off my 85k10. Its orignally a 6.2. I am likely recabbing that truck with the 85 C20 cab and transfer the hump out of it so I don't have to run Cats on it in any state, but I was thinking this Cab and VIN might be worth something to a Cali resident.

 

[HotRodPC]

So if I were to do that in my 84.. it would legally be smogged as if it were a 90 Blazer.. and the emmision reg's would change to that year, sometimes less restricted.

And that is actually unfair IMO. If its an 84 and you put a cleaner burning 90 engine in it, you should still be held to the 84 tailpipe emmsions. This way, even if you have a little hopped up 90 motor, so its a dirtier 90, but still a much cleaner 84, then they are ahead of the game anyway. And I'm sure you know, its quite pricey to go visit the referee. You forgot to mention that fee.

 

[dhamp]

I agree HRPC. They're just doing all they can to make like hard on the 80-ish owners. Why wouldn't and '84 have to stick with the '84 requirements?? What's the difference than if you put a 2011 crate motor in your '84? I bet then, since they can't tie it to a specific vehicle, then it'll stick w/the '84 standards. So the years don't change? It's just a flat '75 and later? At least we roll of the list at 25 years.

 

[Christian Nelson]

WHat you guys keep forgetting is all of this has NOTHING to do with actual emissions, or environment, or any other of the supposed excuses they come up with for it.

It's all about the $$.. If you can shell out the $$ for a newer engine, you can afford to give them "their" piece..

"La Mordida" is what we used to call it..

When they did emissions in Minnesota, they did air tests, did testing, and requirements to vehicles for 5 years, and when they tested again after those 5 years, they found ZERO change in air quality.

Luckily, when they decided to do it in the first place, they placed a clause in it that required them to demonstrate that these measures had a measurable affect on air quality, and didn't simply become another "revenue stream" for the government like it has in so many other places.

Throw logic out of the window, throw this idea that they somehow care bout the air quality, or the environment, because that is the reason it seems so confusing that they'd not say to themselves that a 85 truck had a certain level of emissions allowable, regardless of the engine in it. It has nothing to do with that. They simply want $$$$. And power, and the ability to force you to comply gets them off..

That's all it's about.