About Those Synthetics and Trusting Big Names

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Dejure

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There are names many of us trusted for years. Based on the contents of this video, there are brands in that list we might want to re-think.

More specifically, if an oil brand is willing to con a screw over its customers in one area, is it smart to trust them in anything, or to support them in any way?

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Dejure

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Ran this question on Perplexity: "

is the youtube video saying many oils labeled full synthetic are actually refined oil true"​

The response:

In the U.S. and many other markets, a lot of oils labeled “full synthetic” are in fact highly refined (hydrocracked) mineral oils, and this is allowed by current advertising rules, so the core claim in those videos is essentially true, but it’s more of a labeling/definition issue than an outright scam.


Why the label is confusing​


  • In the late 1990s, Mobil challenged Castrol for calling a Group III hydrocracked mineral oil “synthetic,” arguing that only lab‑built Group IV PAO should count.
  • The National Advertising Division (BBB) sided with Castrol, effectively making “synthetic” a marketing term, not a strict chemical classification, and allowing Group III hydrocracked mineral oils to be sold as full synthetic in the U.S.

What “full synthetic” usually means now​


  • Modern “full synthetic” bottles on the shelf are very often Group III hydrocracked base oil (highly refined crude) plus additive package, not pure Group IV/V lab‑built base stocks.
  • True PAO/ester‑based oils (Group IV/V) still exist, but they’re a minority; many videos that “expose” fake synthetic oils are really pointing out this Group III vs Group IV/V distinction.

Are you being ripped off?​


  • Group III “synthetics” generally perform much better than old‑school conventional for normal drain intervals and meet modern specs (API SP, ILSAC GF‑6/7, dexos, etc.), which is what actually protects the engine.
  • The gray area is that consumers often assume “full synthetic” means exclusively PAO/ester lab‑built base stocks, and pay a premium under that assumption, even though the bottle may just contain high‑end refined mineral oil meeting the same service specs.

If you tell me which specific YouTube video you watched or the brands it called out, I can help you sort which parts are accurate versus overhyped and suggest how to pick oil for your use (e.g., older carb truck vs turbo DI).
 

Dejure

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Here are some widely available oils that are known to be PAO‑based or PAO‑heavy (formulas can change over time, but these are strong current examples):

Common PAO‑based brands/lines​

  • Amsoil Signature Series (and many Amsoil engine oils) – marketed as 100% Group IV PAO with esters in key lines, long‑drain, severe‑service oriented.
  • Red Line Motor Oil – uses a high proportion of Group IV PAO plus Group V esters in all their engine oils, heavily targeted at performance and racing.
  • Motul 300V and many 8100 series oils – racing‑focused 300V and higher‑end 8100 products use PAO and ester base stocks and are marketed as true synthetic.
  • Royal Purple (HPS, XPR, some high‑performance lines) – uses Group IV PAO plus ester in its performance‑oriented lines, especially HPS and racing oils.
  • Mobil 1 premium lines – Extended Performance and Annual Protection contain a significant PAO component, though they are now blends with high‑end Group III/GTL.
  • Liqui Moly high‑end synthetics (e.g., Synthoil, some Top Tec) – German “Vollsynthetisch” oils often use PAO‑based formulations to meet ACEA/Euro OEM specs.
  • Ravenol “USVO/SSG/SSL/SSG” PAO lines – Ravenol explicitly discloses PAO percentages on many product pages and markets several oils as high‑PAO content.
  • Hot Shot’s Secret Blue Diamond – diesel‑oriented oil advertised as 100% PAO base stock.
  • Torco SR‑1 / SR‑5 – boutique performance oils blending PAO and esters for racing and high‑stress use.

A note on “borderline” but high‑end synthetics​

  • Pennzoil Ultra Platinum – based on GTL (gas‑to‑liquid) PurePlus base oil; technically Group III+, not PAO, but performance is often comparable to PAO in many metrics.

How to verify a particular oil​

Because formulations change and companies are not always transparent, the most reliable way to confirm PAO content is to:

  • Check the Product Data Sheet/technical data: some German and boutique brands explicitly state “PAO” or “Group IV.”
  • Look for terms like “Vollsynthetisch” on German labels (historically tied to PAO‑based oils, though not a guarantee).
  • Search enthusiast or tribology forums (BobIsTheOilGuy, etc.) where people track base‑stock changes over time.
If you tell me the vehicle, viscosity, and change interval you’re targeting, I can narrow this down to 2–3 PAO‑based choices that are easy to buy in your area or online.
 

Dejure

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SIDE NOTE: Have a friend who used to race motorbikes. Others running in the class he ran had radiators. He ran synthetic before it was a thing. Because he did, his bike ran 50 degrees cooler and he was able to forego the radiator, giving him a slight edge.

He so liked the performance of the true synthetics he ran it in his dirt work equipment. He said an oil change cost him a fortune, but when you pay a quarter million for a machine, anything that goes toward extending its life and performance is an investment.
 

TotalyHucked

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Meh. I just run whatever has the best deal at the time. There was a bunch of research done a few years back that proved WalMart's Super Tech was some of the best oil you can buy and it's also the cheapest. I've run it, I've run Mobil 1, Castrol, STP, Pennzoil, all of them. There's so many levels between dino oil and true full synthetic and they all play a game with the additives, just pick what ya like and run it.

This is one of those wormholes that isn't worth the headache of going down. As long as the engine has lubricant in it, it's fine. Now a high end race motor is a different story, but run of the mill street stuff, just keep oil in it. Fram filters are the same way, lots of bad about them on the internet but I've used them alot and never once had an issue.
 

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Type in the oil you want to look at, right click and open in new window. Go back to original window, and do again....etc, etc for how ever many you want to compare. Resize all your windows so you can do a side by side comparison. Form your own opinion with what your looking for in your oil. Link below.

You'd be surprised how good supertech (for example) oil actually is. Read up on the specs/additives and form your own opinion.

Let the science help form your opinion and not just sales, cost, and "people swear by".

PETROLEUM QUALITY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA SAMPLE SUMMARY/PASSENGER CAR MOTOR OIL
 
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Dejure

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Some are happy to do as little as possible, others, as much as possible to keep their rig running well. Some trust the infomercials, many of us think them snake oil.

It's indisputable fact oil has seen changes that worked to the benefit of our rigs. For example, back in the 50's and 60's, I worked gas stations. Checking the oil of every car that rolled in for fuel was the norm. When I did, I had to verify whether the car had been running detergent or non-detergent oil (dumping detergent into a non-detergent was a great way to up its oil usage).

In the end, synthetics trumped the oils of the 70's, for example, in reduced friction. As I, elsewhere, noted, some racers discovered they could reduce engine heat (reduced friction) with synthetics enough they could alter their bikes to give them an edge.

THEN there is the filter game. It's far more important that most know. For example, GMC was having problems with engine knocking. They, after a whole lot of head scratching, isolated it down to Fram oil filters.

GMC had contracted with Fram to supply their re-labeled filters. That lowest bidder thing bit again. The Frams were cheaply made. Their valves sucked and the return ports were wanting. Not enough oil was getting back through the system. They swapped filters and the problem went away.

Generally, I'll only run WIX, because they rely on their reputation to sell to the big rigs. To get there, I run filters labeled as such. Alternately, I run the NAPA gold version, or Ford's Carcrafts that are/were relabeled WIX filters.

Reports showing the difference between filters from different manufacturers were telling. The surface area in the WIX were far greater than the cheaper brands, which translates to longer service. The bypass valves were built better and worked.

In my shop, I have three dust collectors. Two of them are what are commonly called four bag collectors, however, one uses cartridge filters. Running them gives me a clear idea of how much of a difference extra filter media can make.

Even though one of the big collectors is running what is called a cyclone (a pre-filter, which spins out 99% of what's picked up by the system, before it ever gets to the impeller), so is bogged down by it, it still picks up notably better than the four bagger that is actually running four bags. It's especially obvious when I use the 4" vacuum wand to clean the shop floor of debris.

The cartridge equipped collector works significantly better than the bag collector because there is, say, twice, or more, surface area to draw air through in the 1 micron cartridges [that are bit shorter than the bags) than there is in 1 micron bags.
 
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Dejure

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Yeah, Camar068, that there are "sleepers" out there in the oil world doesn't surprise me.

I remember when I used to buy Royal Purple cheaper than my regular oil, as they were making a name for themselves. Had I known what I know now, I'd have scrapped up the nickles to buy a barrel or two.

In the end, it MIGHT be like a lot of things - we have to keep on it, because it could change overnight. For example, Bosch doesn't make oil filters, but you can buy ones with their names. For a while they were good, then another company got the re-brand contract and. . . .

So it goes with most anything that is rebranded, or that suffers the whims of upper management catering to the profit wants of investors.
 

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On those who don't care about all the hype of synthetics and such, there is the fact many a vehicle has exceeded the life of any rig one of us owns (MAY be an exception, but it is and exception). It was done on 50's non-detergent oil.

For example, the guys in charge of caring for conditions of a Army Core of Engineers project (one of the dams here in WArshington) had an old International pickup. It rarely got shut off and never really left first or second gear. It drove the dirt roads around the lake side of the dam for decades, in the course of inspecting conditions.

The ONLY time it got shut off was for maintenance. Most of those didn't even give the engine time to cool down. The truck was retired with over a million miles on it.

The high mileage thing makes sense. One of my former bosses used to run the blown mud racers. He was deep into all things that gave his expensive toys the ability to make one more run. Oil and filters was a biggie.

In the course of explaining some of it to us, he said the most damage ever done to our cars was done in our driveways. That is, we get home from the store, park in the driveway, offload our groceries, then start the car and pull on into the garage.

When we first parked, upon getting home, the engine had heated sufficiently to gas off the nasties that form in the crankcase. Even the acids were reduced. Then, after letting the engine cool, we started it, flooding it with vapors harmful to the metals, then parked it cold and still contaminated.

Had we brought the engine back up to temp, the life of the engine would be notably improved (less etching and such).
 

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Meh. I just run whatever has the best deal at the time. There was a bunch of research done a few years back that proved WalMart's Super Tech was some of the best oil you can buy and it's also the cheapest. I've run it, I've run Mobil 1, Castrol, STP, Pennzoil, all of them. There's so many levels between dino oil and true full synthetic and they all play a game with the additives, just pick what ya like and run it.

This is one of those wormholes that isn't worth the headache of going down. As long as the engine has lubricant in it, it's fine. Now a high end race motor is a different story, but run of the mill street stuff, just keep oil in it. Fram filters are the same way, lots of bad about them on the internet but I've used them alot and never once had an issue.
It’s the difference between someone who’s days are filled with real world activities (like work) and real world concerns vs someone with much more free time burning a hole in their pocket.
 

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Some have time for both without obsessing, the oil debate is never going away and Kelly has made some great points slash research, nothing I haven't done myself over the years... When in doubt read the ******* fine print on the back and make sure your particular manufacturer has certified it, yup some oils are still better than others but that's your safeguard per say... Example, my Benz service van requires a low "SAPS" oil, Benz has a certification for that, be cheap and run other diesel oil and plug up the gay ass DPF exhaust system to the tune of about $7k to replace.... I'm an Amsoil guy (haters hate that) just believe in the fact Amsoil is dedicated to producing a top of the line product no matter what the idiot internet jockeys puke up... No offence Toddster you're a great dude but the high quality oil I run in my Diesel equipment/trucks and big HP gassers helps me sleep at night... But yes it burns a hole in my wallet ! :cheers:
 

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