700r4 Exploded !!!

[RetroC10Sport]

I'm sure you're right way back then. I do not think the 65 existed just yet in 91-93.

1997 was the first year for the 4T65E.

 

[RetroC10Sport]

You and 89S were talking about Dodges awhile back, you know that some Jeeps used a Chrysler 6 with a POWERGLIDE in the 70s?

Ireland and I are talking about the Jeeps right now...What a mixed bag of parts those were!

 

[HotRodPC]

yes, and AMC Also used TH400 in several models too. Of course the TH400 was used in many things.

 

[RetroC10Sport]

Yep, Jaguars, Jeeps among others.

 

[Irishman999]

Yep, Jaguars, Jeeps among others.

Thats insane, I had no idea the Jags had AMC parts especially since they are Ford owned these days.

 

[davbell22602]

My 77 jaguar xjs V12 has the th350 and was the first year jag started using GM transmissions also.

 

[HotRodPC]

Thats insane, I had no idea the Jags had AMC parts especially since they are Ford owned these days.

Turbo 400 was used in lots of stuff. Still in the HumV's today. Was used in Bentlys, Rolls Royce and Ferarri's too.

 

[oneluckypops]

I was told to swap it when it goes. The 4L60E have issues shifting hard.

The Hard shifting there referring to is most likely an P1870 Code, which is a trans component slip code caused by a worn valve in the valve body EASY FIX.
What happens is the vale leaks internally and the computer picks up a slip and commands MAXium Line pressure which makes it shift HARD. Sonnex makes an updated valve to correct this and you dont even need the reemers

Dave for what you use a truck for the 4L80E is NOT needed hotrod is right you can build a 60E to hold up. As I am sure you are aware I did convert mine from the 60E to the 80E. The number 1 reason I did was Towing.

There are alot of things to consider with trans failures, IMO the number 1 reason is Heat, but the Number 2 IMO THE MOST OVERLOOKED is proper gear ratios. Which is alos a factor of HEAT.

Try this on for size, Your 97 is likely to have 3.42's which IMO is to HIGH for long lasting 4l60E use with any amount of pulling. I personally think they should have a min. of 3.73's. NOW if you were to convert your 60 to an 80E you would think that you would hold up better right? WRONG WRONG WRONG
The 4L60E has a 3.06 First gear, as where the 4L80E has a 2.48 first gear, Just changing the trans is NOT going to correct any upcoming failures actually they will come earlier.
The Only way to help your trans last along time is.
1. Preventive maintance
2. Rebuild with ALL available updates
3. Flush IF NOT replace Cooler
4. Add external Oil cooler
5. RE GEAR THE DIFFERENTIALS to atleast 3.73's

If you really want the 4L80E then I would reccomend ATLEAST 4.10 gears along with the swap.

Oh yea if you really want to convert to the 4L80E then yes I can help you with the pin outs and what all you would need to do for the swap.
DO NOT buy into the buying a "KIT" for the swap it is a waste of money Your truck already has ALL the Wires needed for the Trans, there just in the wrong places, really quite simple to convert your harness for a 4L80E

 

[HotRodPC]

Yep, I'lll agree with all that. And for real, the gear ratio takes mega strain off the transmisison. Dave's is a Z71, so I say good chance he might already have the 3.73's. Without doubt, heat is the killer of auto transmisisons as far as longegivty. There are other hard part failures that are contributed to strain and thrutst due to hp and torque too but most of those issue are handeled with proper torrington bearings and thrust washers to hold parts in place. I think the biggest misconception people have, is to go a taller gear to get the RPM's low as possible for better fuel economy. I don't buy it. I have proved it a couple times, but that's a whole nother topic. I'd rather have an OD trans with Lock Up and a 4.10 gear than I would a Turbo 400 and 3.21 gears that's in my DD. Eventually, it will be a 7004 and either 4.10's or the CUCV 4.56 rear end if I keep the truck. That 454 will get 13.2 mpg at 65mph empty and not fighting wind. But empty and not fighting the wind, it only gets 8-9 city mpg. I am impressed with the hwy mpg for a 454 old school non computer truck, but with 4.10's and a 700r4 with a deeper first gear, I think I can get 10-11 city and keep the 13mpg hwy and maybe even increase the hwy .5-1mpg too. Why do I think this??? Its a truch that weighs over 2 tons. It takes alot to get it going from a stop sign or light. T400 has a 2.48 first gear. 700r4 has a 3.06 first gear. And the rear gear differance is almost a whole turn differant. The motor would strain much less and use less fuel taking off from lights if I had 4.10 and a 3.06 first gear instead of a 2.48 first gear and 3.21 gears. Then the OD would compensate for my 4.10 to 3.21 gear ratio for hwy mpg. Also having a 4.10 gear, any small hwy grade or little hill isn't going to be as noticable to the motor either. And why the lock up??? Not the for extra 150-200rpm it saves as most would think. More because when a TC is locked up, its not generating anywhere near that heat that a non locking converter endures.

 

[HotRodPC]

BTW Pops, I was aware of the replacement valve by Sonnax, but never heard of it being able to be done without a reamer. It was my understanding you reamed it and went with an oversize valve. You're obviously talking about a newer product that I was not aware of. I am sure you know, that valve you are reffering to is the most overlooked problem at transmission shops even. The will rebuild a trans and not even address that problem. Of course with a newly rebuilt trans, the problem isn't as noticiable so everything is assumed fine when it could be much better. Once a trans starts to wear in the clutch packs and clearances and tolerances are greater, the slamming at gear change becomes more noticeable. With a new nice tighter clutch pack, even though the problem is still there, the drum pistons are not traveling as far slamming the clutches and steels into the pressure plate as hard, so its just not as noticealbe until the clearances increase again. Imagine that, a new trans and it leaves with the same problem it came in with. Very common. Happens all the time.

 

[davbell22602]

The Hard shifting there referring to is most likely an P1870 Code, which is a trans component slip code caused by a worn valve in the valve body EASY FIX.
What happens is the vale leaks internally and the computer picks up a slip and commands MAXium Line pressure which makes it shift HARD. Sonnex makes an updated valve to correct this and you dont even need the reemers

Dave for what you use a truck for the 4L80E is NOT needed hotrod is right you can build a 60E to hold up. As I am sure you are aware I did convert mine from the 60E to the 80E. The number 1 reason I did was Towing.

There are alot of things to consider with trans failures, IMO the number 1 reason is Heat, but the Number 2 IMO THE MOST OVERLOOKED is proper gear ratios. Which is alos a factor of HEAT.

Try this on for size, Your 97 is likely to have 3.42's which IMO is to HIGH for long lasting 4l60E use with any amount of pulling. I personally think they should have a min. of 3.73's. NOW if you were to convert your 60 to an 80E you would think that you would hold up better right? WRONG WRONG WRONG
The 4L60E has a 3.06 First gear, as where the 4L80E has a 2.48 first gear, Just changing the trans is NOT going to correct any upcoming failures actually they will come earlier.
The Only way to help your trans last along time is.
1. Preventive maintance
2. Rebuild with ALL available updates
3. Flush IF NOT replace Cooler
4. Add external Oil cooler
5. RE GEAR THE DIFFERENTIALS to atleast 3.73's

If you really want the 4L80E then I would reccomend ATLEAST 4.10 gears along with the swap.

Oh yea if you really want to convert to the 4L80E then yes I can help you with the pin outs and what all you would need to do for the swap.
DO NOT buy into the buying a "KIT" for the swap it is a waste of money Your truck already has ALL the Wires needed for the Trans, there just in the wrong places, really quite simple to convert your harness for a 4L80E

Got that hard shifting from here. Post #10

http://www.gmt400.com/forum/showthread.php?3200-4l60e-easy-and-worth-it-mods

 

[HotRodPC]

Got that hard shifting from here. Post #10

http://www.gmt400.com/forum/showthread.php?3200-4l60e-easy-and-worth-it-mods

I don't even waste much of my time arguing with people like that. He says plain and simple the 4L60-E is a POS. At least he did say it was his Opinion, I assume that's what he meant by IME. That's the beauty of forums. You get everyones Opinion. Then of course you get those that are just flat ass stupid, then you get those that have been bred or brainwashed to believe something that isn't true. I don't know of this guy, haven't seen many of his posts, so I know nothing of his credability and won't call him stupid. But I'd disagree with him. Just as the 700r4 has issues and it took a few years to get the bugs worked out, and now aftermarket tricks have made them better. This why on a strong build you want to start with an 88-92 Core if building the 700r4. Same with 4L60-E. There have been improvements made, some not so necessary some are. The guy talks as if 4L80-E doesn't have their issues either, and yes they do. JMO if I were you Dave, I'd stick with your 4L60-E for your application. For 1, its an expesive swap. You have Tcase adapters to deal with, drivelines to resize and wiring pinouts to mod. Lots of labor intensive work and money. Secondly, keep your lower first gear, lighter weight and less parastitic hp loss. If your situation changes and you are towing something for fairly long distances, and on a regular basis, then my might consider it, but even then, I'd bet you step into a used HD truck in the same year models and be ahead of the game. For the occasionally towing around town you might do, just take it easy, don't be in any hurry and add a trans cooler as Pops suggested, and I'll add, install a Corvette Servo to firm up and get better holding power for your 2nd gear shift. JMO

 

[89Suburban]

 

[davbell22602]

I don't even waste much of my time arguing with people like that. He says plain and simple the 4L60-E is a POS. At least he did say it was his Opinion, I assume that's what he meant by IME. That's the beauty of forums. You get everyones Opinion. Then of course you get those that are just flat ass stupid, then you get those that have been bred or brainwashed to believe something that isn't true. I don't know of this guy, haven't seen many of his posts, so I know nothing of his credability and won't call him stupid. But I'd disagree with him. Just as the 700r4 has issues and it took a few years to get the bugs worked out, and now aftermarket tricks have made them better. This why on a strong build you want to start with an 88-92 Core if building the 700r4. Same with 4L60-E. There have been improvements made, some not so necessary some are. The guy talks as if 4L80-E doesn't have their issues either, and yes they do. JMO if I were you Dave, I'd stick with your 4L60-E for your application. For 1, its an expesive swap. You have Tcase adapters to deal with, drivelines to resize and wiring pinouts to mod. Lots of labor intensive work and money. Secondly, keep your lower first gear, lighter weight and less parastitic hp loss. If your situation changes and you are towing something for fairly long distances, and on a regular basis, then my might consider it, but even then, I'd bet you step into a used HD truck in the same year models and be ahead of the game. For the occasionally towing around town you might do, just take it easy, don't be in any hurry and add a trans cooler as Pops suggested, and I'll add, install a Corvette Servo to firm up and get better holding power for your 2nd gear shift. JMO

I dont wanna tow with the 97 unless I have to. When I get motor swapped out on the 90 C2500HD then all the massive weight hauling and towing stuff will done with that truck which has the SM465. I do have a hitch on the 97 but it looks like one of those cheap curved pipe style ones from jcwhitney. It has my spare tire pinned also.

 

[HotRodPC]

I dont wanna tow with the 97 unless I have to. When I get motor swapped out on the 90 C2500HD then all the massive weight hauling and towing stuff will done with that truck which has the SM465. I do have a hitch on the 97 but it looks like one of those cheap curved pipe style ones from jcwhitney. It has my spare tire pinned also.

Yep, if you have the option, that's what I'd do. Use the 2500 for your towing needs.