350 vortec 5.7 lower intake leaking vacuum?? Help please

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squaredeal91

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Thanks @RanchWelder welder, I'll try to revisit the rockers at a later date. And no spillage
Cheers
 

RanchWelder

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Crush the Nut This Way:
_____
<------------
_____

You want to crush tighten the locking crimps, not deform the threaded area out of round...
I guess I should have made that clear earlier. Keep in mind, the locking crimps actually cut the threads...
When you deploy the crush mod on the lock nuts, you further deform/cut the threads!

The lock nut acts like a die, carving the threads, every time you redo the rocker arms.
The grade 8 studs from 1976 do not exist in the Vortec Heads.
Which is why it is best, when installing new Vortec heads, to use Poly-locks from the get go, in my opinion. $$
Cheap insurance.

You might get away with the crush once or twice, max, on any given stud with weak sauce threads.

The LH engine about to be on my stand this summer, died with a bent valve.
The bottom end and the cylinder walls are mint-ish!:Big Laugh:
 
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AuroraGirl

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I think you're correct about two problems going on. Approximately 180k on it. I changed intake gaskets 6 years ago. I'm sure Fel-pro but I think they were plastic. They will be off tomorrow morning to see.
did you follow the proper rtv procedure when you did them?

INTAKE MANIFOLD (LOWER) INSTALLATION (4.3L, 5.0L & 5.7L)​

Always use NEW "O" rings when reconnecting fuel lines at rear of engine. Apply a bead of RTV silicone sealer along the front and rear sealing surfaces of the block. See Fig. 6.

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Install NEW gaskets and intake manifold on block while RTV is still wet to the touch. Use Threadlock (12345382) or equivalent to lower intake manifold bolts. Tighten lower intake manifold bolts in sequence to specification.
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See Fig. 7. See TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS table. To complete installation, reverse removal procedure.

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27 ft pounds first pass, 106 ft pounds second pass, 133 ft pounds 3rd pass . the ( ) numbers are newton meters
 

AuroraGirl

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Clean the heck out of the EGR circuit all the way through the manifold, if possible.

I can confirm the bolts are not torque to yield. It is imperative to use the factory bolts with a stud tip, not threaded tip.
This stud bottoms in the holes to prevent crushing of the plastic.
However, when using the upgraded gasket, torque spec may prevent the stud from bottoming out.

This means cleaning any thread locker or sealant from the manifold bolt holes, has to be very clean/blown out.

** This is a good thing. When installing either the Fel-Pro thick paper or the metal gaskets, torque sequance may NOT bottom out the stud tips on the bolts.

Quoted from the 99' Dealership repair manual:

"Applying excessive amounts of sealant may prohibit the gasket from sealing properly"
"The lower lower intake manifold must be installed and the fasteners tightened while the adhesive is still wet to the touch."

1) Apply 4.0mm patch of adhesive GM Part P/N 12346141 at each end. (I was asked to select "The Right Stuff" by my machinist).
It shows a picture of the extreme outer lowest edge of the gasket. The very edge it touches the china wall.
1/4" wide by 4mm tall finger of sealant. |__|
Not much and not up the sidea of the edges.
It is inferred this is the back side of the gasket which goes onto the head, before alignment on the locating pins.
The front tabs get sealant later.

3) Apply 5mm bead to the front engine block.
4) Extend the bead 13mm (0.50") on to each lower intake manifold gasket.
So 1/2" up the rake, or onto the agle of the headmating surface. 5mm wide. Don't over do it, or globs of sealant will end up in your oil passages, filter and oil pump circuits.

The smallest chunk of sealant can clog a lifter and ruin everything.

Then it repeats the same instructions for the rear.

Resist the urge to add anything else. This is why the metal gaskets are highly recommended and the thick paper likely works as well.

8) Apply thread lock GM P/N 12345382 to the manifold bolts. Thread lock is not gasket sealant.

Here is where a lot of people screw up, especially with the plastic manifold.
Borrow the correct torque wrench or buy a new bar type in lb.

Torque sequence is as follows:

7-1-3-5
<---------- Front of manifold
8-4-2-6

9.1) First pass: 27 lb in
9.2) Second pass: 106 lb in
9.3) Final Pass: 11 lb ft (130 lb in)

The trick is finding a 3/8" Beam torque wrench. The 1/4" version only goes to 80 lb in. You run out of wrench for the final pass.
The GearWrench 3/8" will not read as fine on the first pass measurement, so take it easy.
The scale gets you on target for the second and third pass more accurately.
$59 on Amazon.
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Here's the Ares 70214 at $32.00 on AZ. It comes with a 3/8" to 1/4" adapter. :

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Paying attention to inch pound specs is really where the installation works without deforming the plenum or failing.

*** It is going to take "a day OR TWO" to harden the china wall seals.
If you try to start it and your timing is off more than 10 degrees, either way, you could suck the un-cured gasket sealer out and cause another leak.
Especially at the rear china wall, near the oil pressure sender port, where the china wall casting is thinner.
This is the exact area where the plastic gasket is known to leak and fail, at the coolant port.
interesting, my chart i posted had the right numbers but incrorectly said ti was all footpounds. i realize now that 166 foot pounds is a LOT for an intake manifold bolt lol
 

squaredeal91

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did you follow the proper rtv procedure when you did them?

Last time about 6 years ago I didn't have the cool gaskets and i may have overtorqued them and I was tired of working on it so I probably used too much permatex and that's possibly why it failed.
 

squaredeal91

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Ok you have gotten a lot of good advice, so I won't duplicate any of that, but I'll try to mention only stuff that has not been mentioned.

Obviously you had issues with the intake and you are getting that taken care of which is great. Getting the updated spider injection is a must do, I'd put a new fuel filter on it to.

But the vortecs with the pancake style ignition cap are known for failing in weird ways. Everything from hard starting to sudden misfires and backfiring. Can happen on a cap of literally any age or mileage. At the shop we will only use ACDelco cap & rotor as they are the only brand that doesn't seem to do this. I only mention this so if you get it back together and it still isn't running like it should, this would be a good next step.

Oh and for the record, I think that the stock vortec's are great motors, but just like any other motor they have their idiosyncrasies. I've got a 1999 454 vortec in a class c RV. Also I would not hesitate to own a truck with 5.7 vortec.
When I got it together to test start it was acting the same as before. It was trying but still not catching. I ran and got a new overpriced cap and it was trying twice as hard now. I was able to get it to start by slightly opening and closing throttle repeatedly till it caught and started. I'm going to try to get a good cap soon with brass. This new is junk aluminum.
Long short of it is that it's running again and seems good at this time.
 

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When I got it together to test start it was acting the same as before. It was trying but still not catching. I ran and got a new overpriced cap and it was trying twice as hard now. I was able to get it to start by slightly opening and closing throttle repeatedly till it caught and started. I'm going to try to get a good cap soon with brass. This new is junk aluminum.
Long short of it is that it's running again and seems good at this time.
if you can try to get a NOS cap
Highest quality and probably a lot out there still. not much to fail either on one off a shelf. Im keeping all my HEI caps because frankly most are in decent shape and aftermarket junk is just that. Junk.
 

squaredeal91

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RanchWelder

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I have the flat top with coil from the 7.4L sitting in the garage.
Email me for shipping details and we'll work something out for you.
It has 97K on it and functions perfectly.
The cap is new.
 

squaredeal91

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Thought id give some kinda update, been running pretty good for the most part but still has a stumble when starting out something that has always been a plague to me on this thing. Installed an accell coil new plugs and wires a couple weeks ago, had a coup bad wires and now that random pop is gone.
Replaced all 4 o2s yesterday and i haven't tested it much yet but it seems to have improved. They were all old and pre cat o2s were crusty white.
@HotWheelsBurban I Just ordered one of those blue united motor cap and rotor kits last night to get rid of that expensive aluminum one I had to put on it to get me by.
 

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Bought an "Advertised High power coil" from a top hotrod supplier thinking it was an upgrade.
Err... hotter = better, right?

Non ACDelco coils, were causing my trouble.

Non-ACDelco Ignition Modules, same crap.
Hope your coil does not screw up the Module.
Mine freaked out over the non-ACDelco coil.

Stay away from odd ball fuel additives?
They contaminate the O2 sensors and ruin them fast.

These seem to be OK, from what little I add:
SeaFoam, Red Heat Bottle ONLY, (Yellow uses corn alcohol NFG for injectors, seals, o-rings on the EFI).
Marvel Mystery, Lucas injector cleaner, Lucas lubrication (big bottle), Carb cleaner, Lucas Octane Booster, for the ping in a higher compression head/piston engine. That's really all I trust these days. So much crap out there.

No corn fuel. 93 if you can get it. All we have here is 91.
So I run a third bottle of booster every 15 gallons.
Try to never let the tank get below half full, as a rock steady rule, so water does not condensate inside during 35 degree weather changes.

Everything else on the EFI, you own, is fuel line o-rings, really.

My new winter fuel filter annual change (three days ago) stopped the truck from stalling when I put it into gear.

When the last time you changed the fuel filter?
 

squaredeal91

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I replaced the coil with an accell because I like them and it is the original coil from 99 and I was suspect of weak spark. Im slowly replacing things as i can with good quality stuff. I have 2 accell coils in use on other engines. Ones HEI and the other is a tuned port and have no problems.
I thought about maybe looking at an accell icm to go with it. However I'm thinking my stumbling is possibly a weak egr valve. The o2s have helped in some ways so I feel good about it.
 

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Good to know the Accell coil works too.
$50 to fail gets old quick.

I've never had to change an egr, but sometimes the seasonal fuel additives can cause a lot of carbon to build up and they require cleaning more often.

If you have not thoroughly cleaned your distributor shaft assembly, it can build up dirt and grime inside the shaft.
When you pull it soak the gear and shaft with Break Free then wash with carb cleaner, before you try to disassemble.
It can get stuck bad and ruin the distributor, if you do not soak inside very well.
When I changed the small coil inside the flying magnets, it really helped using dielectric grease on the connectors and fresh thermal paste on the module.
If the lower gear has any wear, try and find an OEM new gear for $26 and push the pin/replace the drive gear with melonized OEM.
The shaft was out of balance with a lot of hard baked oil to scrub inside the shaft tubing. It was originally an AZ K5.

If you have the flat top, it's easier, without the coil inside.
Slack in the gear teeth to the cam and a rough oil pump gear can cause a slight stumble in the ignition to lobe ratio.
The added weight of the oil on the shaft causes increased friction on the gear to the cam.
Filing the teeth on the oil pump and replacing the plastic connector under the distributor is critical too.
The sell a solid steel shaft with a welded drive chunk which deletes the plastic bit from ARP or a few other good companies.
Fine tuning all the bugs takes a while and it's worth the effort.
Fully restoring the OEM distributor is worth every dime.
I would not buy anything to upgrade mine, after the rebuild came out so well, unless i was shaving seconds off a race car.

It's tough to diagnose, without "seeing things".
Thought my injectors were causing the stumble, or bad fuel.
New filter and it seems cleared up?
So simple.

My transmission parts are stacking up.
Almost ready to pull the Valve body and start the re-manufacture.
Sonnax parts everywhere.
45-60 mph winds today. Howling through the mountains all night and today.
 

squaredeal91

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Weather been nice last 3 days till now, it's raining. Snow possible Friday. I hope it does.

As for the burb it only gets premium fuel. Fuel filter not too old. Distributor new last year. It's metal. Oil pump is high volume and has all steel driveshaft. Cloyse gear set. Hope your trans goes together soon.
 

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