Recommendations for a gas saver DD?

[Hunter79764]

last thing gmc made worth having was in 2006, before active fuel management / displacement on demand ....idiocy.
edit: and it came with a 4L80e

That's why I want to hang on to my 04, even if it is a 4L65e...

Yeah, the complexity on the new stuff just kinda kills me. Not that I can't figure it out, but I don't WANT to figure it out. Plastic oil pans, turbo everything within an inch of its life, and then have the turbo cast into the exhaust manifold with a proprietary whatever that costs $3000 to replace... It's probably worse in my head than it is in real life, but I cringe at the thought of owning most new-ish cars. But aside from a sweet deal on a cleaned up VW Rabbit, the new stuff is the only way to get the super high MPG's. I think mid 20's is acceptable for me, I just need to find something that is the right mix of old and new, or otherwise acceptable.
I'm thinking more about a Tesla Model 3, should be close to my budget for something with 100k miles or so, and fairly simple. I won't be able to do much of the work that it might need, but it should need a lot less work overall, so I think it's a win. I'm going to keep an eye on the market and jump when I see something I think is a good deal, but it's probably closer to the end of the year before I need to make a move, and maybe even longer if I drag my feet the right ways...

 

[goldpack]

That's why I want to hang on to my 04, even if it is a 4L65e...

Yeah, the complexity on the new stuff just kinda kills me. Not that I can't figure it out, but I don't WANT to figure it out. Plastic oil pans, turbo everything within an inch of its life, and then have the turbo cast into the exhaust manifold with a proprietary whatever that costs $3000 to replace... It's probably worse in my head than it is in real life, but I cringe at the thought of owning most new-ish cars. But aside from a sweet deal on a cleaned up VW Rabbit, the new stuff is the only way to get the super high MPG's. I think mid 20's is acceptable for me, I just need to find something that is the right mix of old and new, or otherwise acceptable.
I'm thinking more about a Tesla Model 3, should be close to my budget for something with 100k miles or so, and fairly simple. I won't be able to do much of the work that it might need, but it should need a lot less work overall, so I think it's a win. I'm going to keep an eye on the market and jump when I see something I think is a good deal, but it's probably closer to the end of the year before I need to make a move, and maybe even longer if I drag my feet the right ways...

there are a whole lot of buyers remorse in 2 year old full electrics.
like they are worth half what the people paid for them. which maybe a win for the used buyer BUT... if you are actually pulling your wallet out, make sure it meets your situation.
read how it runs its air conditioner/ heater vs. hours and miles....or whatever the real world drivers found.

at least a toyota hybrid has its gas engine to make it work in the heat and cold, like a plain old internal combustion engine.
One of my neighbors was plowing 16" of soft snow off a highway with a 2009 era prius with 4 studded snows....front wheel drive. a state tropper told him to get off the road and wait in a diner while the plows wiped it clean. (they had just closed that section of the 4 lane)

 

[77Dmax]

Like the title says, I'm trying to rearrange my fleet over the next few months and get something with decent gas mileage, mainly to drive to work (75 miles round trip/day with about half of it in stop and go traffic and half high speed highway) plus maybe occasional road trips when the whole family isn't going (i.e. take the wife for a quick weekend trip to the hill country).
I have an 04 Saturn Vue that has been decent to me and gets around 25-27 mpg, but the stickshift gets old in DFW traffic and it feels like it's made of plastic at 75 mph. Mainly because it is. It will likely be going to my oldest daughter who wrecked her previous vehicle when she gets back from school in December.
I also have an 04 Denali XL that I love to drive, but 13 mpg and adding 20k miles per year on one with 265k already sucks. I plan on keeping it as a backup vehicle no matter what, at least for a while.
I have an 08 Rav4 2.4l that I'll be repairing and driving for a bit to make sure there's no issues before likely handing it to my daughter who will be driving soon. I may hang on to it if I like it enough, but I think it will just be a stopgap car for now.

I can probably get around $10k cash together, or could do low payments with $5-6k down and have the gas savings make the car payment on something up to maybe $15k or so.
I've considered getting a used Tesla model 3 or older S and installing a charger at home. That's the higher end of budget but the lower end of operating costs since I'd be able to charge at home, and road trip duty wouldn't be an issue.
Also looked a lot at the Chevy Volts. The first generation gets me a little less than half my drive on electric, plugging it in to a standard outlet every night, before the gas engine kicks in and gets 40 mpg from there. But is only a 4 seater, I have 4 kids still at home and could use that extra seat in the back. 2nd gen gets better electric range and a 5th seat, but pushes a bit out of my price range unless I make a stretch.
I'm not sold on electric by any means, but I want something that is comfortable for spending my time in while commuting, reliable, and easy to work on when needed. And not just be a lump of "car" with zero character... A 4 cyl Camry is on the list for meeting most of those, but getting any character from one is tough.

What are some others I should look into? Cars you have had good luck with for racking up miles?
We're also downsizing my wife's 2013 Denali XL to a Highlander to same some gas and headache there too. I have grown to hate that truck, but that's a different story.

You should do some math before you pull the trigger on anything. Mileage is obviously a big cost factor in vehicle ownership, but you must consider all expenses to save money. Afterall, you want to save money and not just at the pump.

We have similar commutes, mine is 75-90 round trip depending on the route I take.

Sounds like you have plenty of rigs to drive already.

Lets assume you spend 10k on a rig that gets 25 mpg, and your current rig gets 15 mpg. And insurance is 1200 a year on the new car. Gas is 3.50 a gallon also.


It costs 23 cents to drive a mile with your current 15 mpg rig, and 14 cents a mile with the new 25 mpg car. 9 cents difference.

You'll need to drive 111k miles before you make your initial 10k investment back. At 75 miles a day thats just over 4 years. These figures dont include maintenance or insurance. Maintenance would likely be the same as older parts are cheaper but insurance would be more for the newer car.

Saving money at the pump is gratifying but looking at the total investment is key.

 

[Hunter79764]

You should do some math before you pull the trigger on anything. Mileage is obviously a big cost factor in vehicle ownership, but you must consider all expenses to save money. Afterall, you want to save money and not just at the pump.

We have similar commutes, mine is 75-90 round trip depending on the route I take.

Sounds like you have plenty of rigs to drive already.

Saving money at the pump is gratifying but looking at the total investment is key.

Definitely agree, but the other portion is that I'm working to downsize/offload my fleet, and none of the stuff I have is in good shape to put 20k per year on without major maintenance that I don't have time for... I know the car won't pay for itself, but the Yukon would continue to kill me in gas as well as need a full front end rebuild, a transmission overhaul, and possibly more than minor engine work if I put another 40k on it in the next 2 years. At that point, the cost sunk into it to get it back in shape makes it less desirable to keep around as backup family car and a truck to take hunting/camping, especially before the square gets rebuilt. And even then, a quick trip to the deer lease for a weekend in a 2004 Denali vs an 87 lifted 3/4 ton "Charactermobile" is a very different trip.

Electric will be about $50/month to run, 25 mpg will be about $250, Yukon runs nearly $500 if I drove it an entire month. So in a couple years, an electric would be worth about $5k savings vs a typical car like my Saturn or RAV4 (again, both of those going to 2 different daughters soon), and $5k residual value is more than fair, I think. $3-5k is worth it to me to have reliable, comfortable transportation. The longer I keep it, the better that math gets, and if I change jobs to a short commute, well, I won't save the $5k in fuel, I gambled and lost to some extent.

Losing the Saturn and racking up miles on the Yukon costs me an extra $6k in fuel in the same timeframe, easily another $2k in repairs I wouldn't have on a lower mileage car, and residual value would be maybe $2k to someone who wants the 6.0. So I'm out $6k to put a car I love into the grave in 2 years, and the more I drive it, the less comfortable it is getting. Some of that maintenance investment is already needed...

Getting a cheaper ($8-10k) 25 mpg car to replace the saturn puts me at a pretty similar $4-5k cost to drive for the next 2 years and lets me keep my Yukon, so again, about the same. It just boils down to not getting screwed on a lemon car, and making sure I have something comfortable to drive for 10-12 hours a week... That's really where I need the most input, I've had MANY more trucks and full size SUV's than any kind of car for my entire life, and the cars I know about and like all get crap gas mileage.

And when I ran the math on a Volt, it was similar payoff but I really needed the 2nd gen car at the 1st gen price... But the 2nd gen cars are dropping in price, so maybe I just hang on a while and it becomes a winner again.

 

[Frankenchevy]

there are a whole lot of buyers remorse in 2 year old full electrics.
like they are worth half what the people paid for them. which maybe a win for the used buyer BUT... if you are actually pulling your wallet out, make sure it meets your situation.
read how it runs its air conditioner/ heater vs. hours and miles....or whatever the real world drivers found.

at least a toyota hybrid has its gas engine to make it work in the heat and cold, like a plain old internal combustion engine.
One of my neighbors was plowing 16" of soft snow off a highway with a 2009 era prius with 4 studded snows....front wheel drive. a state tropper told him to get off the road and wait in a diner while the plows wiped it clean. (they had just closed that section of the 4 lane)

It’s not very often that anything is worth buying new due to depreciation. IF you plan to keep a vehicle until it explodes it could be a little easier to justify.

I’ve had a Tesla since 2021 and have 105k miles on it. Based on my experience my mom now has a Model Y and my dad has a Model 3. They were staunch ICErs just as I was. I still like my old junk, but it’s nice to have a vehicle my wife/family can jump in anytime and I have zero worries about them getting to their destination. Also nice not jumping in and realizing the oil change is 1500 miles past due and my wife hadn’t noticed or said anything.

@Hunter79764 , whenever we go into town our round trip is at least as long as yours or longer. Our winter low temps aren’t super cold in the teens, but our summer temps 5 miles down the road just outside of our little microclimate are triple digits many days of the summer months. The AC and heat kicks butt. It’s super nice to defrost/preheat the car in the winter or cool it down in the summer from your phone, especially if you have little guys and dogs like we do. Speaking of dogs, there is a pet mode where you can control the HVAC from your phone. Works great for pets or groceries.

Another nice thing is waking up to a charged vehicle every morning. With a 300+ mile range, there’s no waiting to charge for any DD tasks.

77Dmax’s comment about total cost of ownership is 100% valid and your ROI will vary mostly based on your electricity costs. The math is straightforward. My car has averaged 250Wh/mile driving it like a normal person and not shy about acceleration. So say your electricity costs $0.13kWh and your fuel is $3.60/gallon=3.60/0.13=27.692*4mi/kWh=110mpg equivalent.

 

[xm20k]

If gas stick to non turbo the tiny 1.5, 1.6 and even some 2.0s that have tiny turbos, so they don't have a ton of lag when they go, they go and almost always take the engine with them.

My first Focus was under 2K miles the cold side shattered no idea why, but the impellor was not in the housing it inhaled it into engine they replaced the whole car with a non turbo 2.0 drove that for 4 years and traded it in for the AWD Escape we have now also non turbo.

 

[77Dmax]

Definitely agree, but the other portion is that I'm working to downsize/offload my fleet, and none of the stuff I have is in good shape to put 20k per year on without major maintenance that I don't have time for... I know the car won't pay for itself, but the Yukon would continue to kill me in gas as well as need a full front end rebuild, a transmission overhaul, and possibly more than minor engine work if I put another 40k on it in the next 2 years. At that point, the cost sunk into it to get it back in shape makes it less desirable to keep around as backup family car and a truck to take hunting/camping, especially before the square gets rebuilt. And even then, a quick trip to the deer lease for a weekend in a 2004 Denali vs an 87 lifted 3/4 ton "Charactermobile" is a very different trip.

Electric will be about $50/month to run, 25 mpg will be about $250, Yukon runs nearly $500 if I drove it an entire month. So in a couple years, an electric would be worth about $5k savings vs a typical car like my Saturn or RAV4 (again, both of those going to 2 different daughters soon), and $5k residual value is more than fair, I think. $3-5k is worth it to me to have reliable, comfortable transportation. The longer I keep it, the better that math gets, and if I change jobs to a short commute, well, I won't save the $5k in fuel, I gambled and lost to some extent.

Losing the Saturn and racking up miles on the Yukon costs me an extra $6k in fuel in the same timeframe, easily another $2k in repairs I wouldn't have on a lower mileage car, and residual value would be maybe $2k to someone who wants the 6.0. So I'm out $6k to put a car I love into the grave in 2 years, and the more I drive it, the less comfortable it is getting. Some of that maintenance investment is already needed...

Getting a cheaper ($8-10k) 25 mpg car to replace the saturn puts me at a pretty similar $4-5k cost to drive for the next 2 years and lets me keep my Yukon, so again, about the same. It just boils down to not getting screwed on a lemon car, and making sure I have something comfortable to drive for 10-12 hours a week... That's really where I need the most input, I've had MANY more trucks and full size SUV's than any kind of car for my entire life, and the cars I know about and like all get crap gas mileage.

And when I ran the math on a Volt, it was similar payoff but I really needed the 2nd gen car at the 1st gen price... But the 2nd gen cars are dropping in price, so maybe I just hang on a while and it becomes a winner again.

If you're selling current stock to buy new stock then your return quickens considerably.


I am an EV fan and i think we'll have one to replace the wife's current 2022 blazer. That'll be a little less sweet once they figure out to tax for mileage, but will still be a viable option.

 

[Hunter79764]

Yep, I'm almost certainly buying something one way or the other, its just a matter of how much I put in and how steep the savings curve is compared to what I'm running currently. I deal with large projects, ROI Capital Expenditures, and all that kind of stuff at work regularly, and it is amazing how often the numbers tell stories that people don't want to hear. A common one is revamping lighting in our industrial shops. A cheap LED and installation pays for itself in 1-2 years, and to do the whole shop might be a $100k investment. So if it's 2 years, that means we are saving $50k per year for probably 10 years until they start dying, then that becomes the new baseline and we have essentially no financial justification to replace them other than maintenance, so it is just an ongoing cost at that point. If we spend $150-200k on high quality fixtures with programmable motion and daylight harvesting (they turn off next to an open bay door, essentially), they still have about the same ROI of 1-2 years, but after that, we are saving $75-100k/year, and with the reduced temperatures from dimming and reduced hours, on top of a higher quality fixture, they will live considerably longer, maybe 30-40 years, making the lifetime costs WAAAY lower. And based on that, 90% of our shops go out and find the cheapest fixture they can, with zero controls, and run it to failure in 5-10 years


I try...

 

[Hunter79764]

One shop in Mexico was very proud of their new install, and how they got "equivalent" fixtures for 20% less than I gave them from a preferred supplier by using a local supplier, and wanted to show them off to me. So we set up a time for me to go visit about 2 months out. By the time I got there, about 25% of the new fixtures were dead and half of what was dying, and even the best ones were flat out purple and nearly useless for doing any actual work. I think they are still trying to get them replaced under warranty.