Buddy's 4l60e issue, looking for advice..

[Christian Nelson]

Well, since my tranny rebuild was successful, people are coming out of the wood work with tranny work for me..

A buddy came to me with a 99 Suburban that has a really odd issue. I've been looking it up, and can't find any real info on it, but I have some suspicions, and was wanting to run them by you all.

When you first start it, you can put it in reverse, or any of the drive options, and it will go the way it's supposed to. But, then it just stops, like it's in neutral, or park. At this time, if you put it back into park, and then try to get it back out, the gear selector is really stiff, like you don't have the brake pedal pressed, but it does move, just not easy.

My first thought was faulty brake switch, but the tail lights work just fine, isn't it the same switch?

He was told "bad tranny" and $5,000 please by a shop. I am thinking it has to be electrical, because there's no indication of any debris in the fluid, nice clean and red looking, when it does drive, it dirves fine no noises, etc.

The only thing mechanical I can think of that would cause this would be a sheared pump, but I would think that would have to make noise and be a constant situation, not intermittent.

So, on the side of the tranny, there's some sort of control box, and I am wondering if there is some actuator motor inside of this that is actually doing the shifting of the valve body, not the physical lever.

Because on my older Suburban with the 4l60E, even if the solenoids aren't firing, you can shift it down into low, and it will move, and reveres will move as well, since there is a physical pathway for the hydraulics to go, not needing any computer input.

My question is, is this box on the side the thing actually doing the shifting, rather than the shift cable connected to the lever?

If something is faulty with that box, would that explain the stiffness and why it simply acts like it's in park when it warms up? The cable doesn't seem broken, you can feel the different stops for the gear selection, and looking below, it is indeed moving the little arm back and forth.

Is there a way to remove this box, and shift it like the older style? How can I test this box to see if that is the problem? I have 4 possibilities I can think of, brake button, steering column (if someone has forced the thing past the stop by making it shift when the brake pedal was not depressed, that would explain why it is stiff now, but will shift, maybe something wrong causing the electrical to be wonky due to that?) box on side of tranny, or pump issue, plugge passage, etc.. I am trying to eliminate the electrical crap first before I open or drop the tranny.

Oh, another possible issue, his dip stick is broken for his tranny fluid, there's still enough of it left to know there's enough fluid, but the tip is gone. I asked him if maybe it is broken off inside, he doesn' know, maybe that is plugging something uP?

If people keep bringing me their stuff to fix, I will NEVER have time to get to working on my 77!!!! GRR!!

 

[oneluckypops]

First of all, i am glad your trans build went sucessful. Keep in mind that these same people that are wanting you to rebuild theres are exspecting you to know everything about there transmissions, and If you rebuild for them and they have a problem you will be liable to fix it. BE CAREFULL AS TO NOT GET IN TO DEEP IN SOMETHING YOUR STILL LEARNING YOURSELF.

Now the Problem with the Transmission your speaking of could be several different things. But instead of just telling you what to look for I will TRY to explain WHY you look for it and how it works.

Your thoughts on the brake switch being faulty is defintly a possability, HOWEVER just looking to see if you have brake lights is NOT a proper Diagnostics. There is another part of it that needs to be diagnosed. These trucks have what they call a "shift interlock solenoid" If your loosing power to that solenoid it will be stuck in PARK, However if you have already shifted from park before it gets hard to shift then I would NOT think that is the problem.

The "little black actuator thingy" on the side of the Transmission is known as 2 different things, 1 is a Range selector Switch, and/or The Neutral safety switch. In a nutshell the only thing this does is illuminates the gear shift selector indicator lights, and send signal the the starter relay when in park/ Neutral.

The best way to test this condition is to unhook the shift cable from the Transmission WHEN THE PROBLEM persist. Then try shifting the shifter, If its still hard to shift the you know its either in the columb of the cable itself. You can also try shifting the Transmission by hand with the cable removed, if it shifts REALLY hard you know its in the Transmission.

The only other thing to really look at is the Manual Detent Valve in the Transmission.IMHO it almost seems like it is getting hung up, and when you mentioned the broken tip of the dipstick, that might just be waht is hanging it up.

The list of things to diagnose the easiest would be in this order.
1. Shift cable
2. Manually shifting the Transmission
3.Shift interlock Solenoid can be tested when the plastic columb pieces are removed.
4. The Columb
5. Valve body (Manual valve)

 

[Christian Nelson]

First off, thank you for explaining why as well as what, I really appreciate this. Believe me, I am trying to explain to all these people that I am just learning, and I had one success. But I also see why they are desperate, they get told, "bad tranny, $5000 please" and the vehicle isn't worth half that even.. Even if I rebuild the tranny for them, I cannot imagine charging them even half that, if I netted $1000 from it, I'd be happy! Anyhow, this guy I am just trying to help because I simply have a hard time believing this tranny needs a total rebuild. It just sounds like something electrical to me.

So, you are saying that that box that the shift lever goes into does nothing but light up the column gear selector? Awfully big box to just be doing that. That was why I was wondering if it was like the transfer case on this one, where there's a stepper motor that actually does the shifting. That, and the fact that the actual lever that the cable moves doesn't seem to line up with the older location of the shift lever, on my 4l60e so I figured this box actually did the shifting.

Anyhow, ok, so there's a solenoid in the column actuated by the brake, gotcha. What am I looking for in checking the cable? I did crawl under and watch it go back and forth down below, and you can definitely feel it clicking from one spot to the next. If I read you right, you want me to disconnect it completely from the tranny, and see if the column is still stiff to move back and forth, is this correct? I was thinking if the manual valve in the valve body had an issue, it would get stuck, and not move, maybe the pin came off? But, again, wouldn't that be a constant situation? The intermittent is what is bugging me..

First of all, i am glad your trans build went sucessful. Keep in mind that these same people that are wanting you to rebuild theres are exspecting you to know everything about there transmissions, and If you rebuild for them and they have a problem you will be liable to fix it. BE CAREFULL AS TO NOT GET IN TO DEEP IN SOMETHING YOUR STILL LEARNING YOURSELF.

Now the Problem with the Transmission your speaking of could be several different things. But instead of just telling you what to look for I will TRY to explain WHY you look for it and how it works.

Your thoughts on the brake switch being faulty is defintly a possability, HOWEVER just looking to see if you have brake lights is NOT a proper Diagnostics. There is another part of it that needs to be diagnosed. These trucks have what they call a "shift interlock solenoid" If your loosing power to that solenoid it will be stuck in PARK, However if you have already shifted from park before it gets hard to shift then I would NOT think that is the problem.

The "little black actuator thingy" on the side of the Transmission is known as 2 different things, 1 is a Range selector Switch, and/or The Neutral safety switch. In a nutshell the only thing this does is illuminates the gear shift selector indicator lights, and send signal the the starter relay when in park/ Neutral.

The best way to test this condition is to unhook the shift cable from the Transmission WHEN THE PROBLEM persist. Then try shifting the shifter, If its still hard to shift the you know its either in the columb of the cable itself. You can also try shifting the Transmission by hand with the cable removed, if it shifts REALLY hard you know its in the Transmission.

The only other thing to really look at is the Manual Detent Valve in the Transmission.IMHO it almost seems like it is getting hung up, and when you mentioned the broken tip of the dipstick, that might just be waht is hanging it up.

The list of things to diagnose the easiest would be in this order.
1. Shift cable
2. Manually shifting the Transmission
3.Shift interlock Solenoid can be tested when the plastic columb pieces are removed.
4. The Columb
5. Valve body (Manual valve)

 

[oneluckypops]

First off, thank you for explaining why as well as what, I really appreciate this. Believe me, I am trying to explain to all these people that I am just learning, and I had one success. But I also see why they are desperate, they get told, "bad tranny, $5000 please" and the vehicle isn't worth half that even.. Even if I rebuild the tranny for them, I cannot imagine charging them even half that, if I netted $1000 from it, I'd be happy! Anyhow, this guy I am just trying to help because I simply have a hard time believing this tranny needs a total rebuild. It just sounds like something electrical to me.

So, you are saying that that box that the shift lever goes into does nothing but light up the column gear selector? Awfully big box to just be doing that. That was why I was wondering if it was like the transfer case on this one, where there's a stepper motor that actually does the shifting. That, and the fact that the actual lever that the cable moves doesn't seem to line up with the older location of the shift lever, on my 4l60e so I figured this box actually did the shifting.

Anyhow, ok, so there's a solenoid in the column actuated by the brake, gotcha. What am I looking for in checking the cable? I did crawl under and watch it go back and forth down below, and you can definitely feel it clicking from one spot to the next. If I read you right, you want me to disconnect it completely from the tranny, and see if the column is still stiff to move back and forth, is this correct? I was thinking if the manual valve in the valve body had an issue, it would get stuck, and not move, maybe the pin came off? But, again, wouldn't that be a constant situation? The intermittent is what is bugging me..

yes disconnect the cable from the transmission WHEN THE PROBLEM PERSISTS. If you can move the shifter with ease with it unhooked from the Transmission then you have ruled out everything from where the cable hooks to the Transmission back to the shifter handle on the columb. In that case then the Problem is Transmission related, The manual valve can INFACT be the cause with an intermintent condition. If the broken tip of the dip stick has found its way inside the manual valve and is wedging inside the valve then that would cause the selector to move very tough. There is also an update for the manual valve, BUT it is more for a more positive quicker shift from Drive to Reverse, Simply grind a Bevel on 1 end of the valve for that update.

As far as 5,000 goes for a 4L60E they are smoking some seriouse ****, When I rebuild them I am less then a 1/4 of that Price. Depending on what I find for hard parts that need replaced My price usually runs---1200-1500 as a cash and cary. And 1800-2100 with me pulling and installing. Patch jobs are usually around 500-700 but again they are nothing more then "patched" usually its car lots that want that type of repair.

If the Problem is in your Columb with the shift interlock solenoid (which i doubt it that it is) then I can get you the schematics for the Wiring of the circuit. Be glad to help you with what ever you might have dont hesitate to ask

 

[Christian Nelson]

Hey, thought you guys might wanna know what ever happened with this tranny.

My buddy ended up getting another suburban that had caught fire, but the tranny looked good, for $700. We swapped out the tranny, and he stripped out everything he thought he could use, and scrapped the rest, ended up pretty close to even on the deal, with a nice vortec engine to boot. Looks like the only damage was rubber, plastic, and paint, none of the metal on the engine looks evne discolored, soe he's gonna see how it goes.

Anyhow, he opened up the tranny, and it was so full of clutch debris, what we think happened was that the clutch debris was clogging the filter, and lossing pressure to keep the clutches pressed together, which was why it was intermittent. So, now he wants me to rebuild it, but the Suburban he had is going fine now.

Looks like he may get to try out the engine too, he was driving it the other day, and the truck slowed down, and then the engine quit. He can't turn the engine, and it was overheated I guess. I am hoping it's just a water pump that died and he froze the bearing. He said when the engine quit, it was spraying water and steam everywhere, sounded to me like a faile dwater pump, which might cause it not to crank anymore.

But, yeah, the cause for it working, then when it warmed up not, was the debris in the pan clogging the filter.

 

[Christian Nelson]

Tore tranny down.

one of the planetary gearsets was busted all up, the teeth must've been intermittantly engaging.

This is now on the back burner, as he doesn't have the $$ for swapping out all the planetaries, and so forth..

He still wants me to rebuild someday..