4L60E Information Thread (Includes 4L65/70/75)

[NickTransmissions]

Bumping this thread up with another 4L60E video. This one focuses on all the tools, supplies and equipment you'll want to have on hand to rebuild 700R4 and 4L60E transmissions...A great resource for anyone strongly thinking to take on this job!

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Enjoy and TIA for watching!

 

[AuroraGirl]

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[AuroraGirl]

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[AuroraGirl]

Hey nick, so someone is trying to tell me the 4l60e didnt get Adaptive shifts till it got an ISS which I dont think is correct, I rememebr seeing adaptives on my tech 2 connected to a ALDL on a 95 Vandura and service data from the late 90s+ saying adaptive shifts.

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This smells like crap to me , because i know for a fact my 4l80e has adapts because ive seen them on my tech 2 and my driving experience had more abrupt and harsh shifts after i cleared it but quickly smoothed out to my driving style

 

[NickTransmissions]

Hey nick, so someone is trying to tell me the 4l60e didnt get Adaptive shifts till it got an ISS which I dont think is correct, I rememebr seeing adaptives on my tech 2 connected to a ALDL on a 95 Vandura and service data from the late 90s+ saying adaptive shifts.


This smells like crap to me , because i know for a fact my 4l80e has adapts because ive seen them on my tech 2 and my driving experience had more abrupt and harsh shifts after i cleared it but quickly smoothed out to my driving style

I believe there was adaptive logic used in the shift strategies prior to the ISS but I am not 100% sure.

Clinebarger is a very knowledgeable builder who's btdt; I have leveraged numerous posts/threads of his as I was coming up the learning curve, particularly on TH400s and 4L80Es which I believe he also specializes in (also 200-4Rs).

Beyond that, the pcm / tcm command logic is outside of the trans thus I consider it outside of my field since I dont do tuning or programming. So would defer to an SME in that space to definitively answer your question.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I believe there was adaptive logic used in the shift strategies prior to the ISS but I am not 100% sure.

Clinebarger is a very knowledgeable builder who's btdt; I have leveraged numerous posts/threads of his as I was coming up the learning curve, particularly on TH400s and 4L80Es which I believe he also specializes in (also 200-4Rs).

Beyond that, the pcm / tcm command logic is outside of the trans thus I consider it outside of my field since I dont do tuning or programming. So would defer to an SME in that space to definitively answer your question.

I’ll trust the gm service data over a hp tuner screenshot of someone’s random pcm on a forum lol

BUT you also lend a lot of weight to clineberger. I should investigate. Where’s a good place to talk to him so you know?

 

[DoubleDingo]

Is it safe to run the 4l60e in 3rd gear? Meaning 3rd selected, not D. What is the difference of 3rd running with the selector in D, as opposed to the selector being in 3rd? And is there 3rd gear lockup on the TC? If not, can it be added or tuned in?

Edit:
I ask this because of a member on a different forum says it's unsafe to do so. Says it engages the overrun clutches. What the heck are overrun clutches? Frictions and steels? I cannot see how it can damage the transmission, and asked direct questions and got word salad responses. I am genuinely curious about this, as I cannot wrap my brain around running a transmission in 3rd gear being a bad thing.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Is it safe to run the 4l60e in 3rd gear? Meaning 3rd selected, not D. What is the difference of 3rd running with the selector in D, as opposed to the selector being in 3rd? And is there 3rd gear lockup on the TC? If not, can it be added or tuned in?

Edit:
I ask this because of a member on a different forum says it's unsafe to do so. Says it engages the overrun clutches. What the heck are overrun clutches? Frictions and steels? I cannot see how it can damage the transmission, and asked direct questions and got word salad responses. I am genuinely curious about this, as I cannot wrap my brain around running a transmission in 3rd gear being a bad thing.

Perfectly safe, esp when towing. If you're moving faster than 60, put it into overdrive.

Can you share the link to the forum where someone is stating it's not safe to do so?

 

[DoubleDingo]

Perfectly safe, esp when towing. If you're moving faster than 60, put it into overdrive.

Can you share the link to the forum where someone is stating it's not safe to do so?

I was going to PM this link, but I guess you get bombarded with messages, as the start a conversation button is not on your profile. This is the thread.... https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/gear-swap-from-3-42%E2%80%99s-to-3-73%E2%80%99s-worth-it.155864/

I deleted all of my posts from that forum and that thread. That dude made my blood boil, and I chose to leave instead of ignore him. Should have just ignored him, but I figured I could get better info over here from you, and not have to deal with him anymore.

I have ran the 4l60e in 3rd on numerous occasions, and it keeps the rpms in a better range, especially around town, but haven't for about a month because of the exchange over there.

You say over 60 mph shift into OD, what if you're going with the flow of traffic at 70 mph on a steep or long grade? Slow down, or shift into od and have it upshift and downshift over and over? I like to leave it in 3rd on steep or long grades until the grades somewhat level off, but if it'll roast the 4l60e, I guess I need to rethink that. The grades in question can be navigated at 60-70 mph speeds. In my Jeep with AW4, I have ran it in 3rd for over 20 years, around town, steep grades, od for flat-ish terrain and highway cruising. I had planned to drive the Tahoe in a similar fashion but have since chickened out driving like that because I don't want to roast the transmission. Tow mode, the shift points are too high for simple around town driving, so I tend to do a dance of tow mode and regular mode depending on speeds around town.

 

[GXPWeasel]

Perfectly safe, esp when towing. If you're moving faster than 60, put it into overdrive.

Can you share the link to the forum where someone is stating it's not safe to do so?

I'm glad someone that knows more than me (a LOT more, when it comes to transmissions) posted what I was told to do, and have done with our truck that has a 4L Slippy. My daughters '97 C1500 has this, behind a Vortec 5.7, and we use that truck to pull a 6,000 lb boat/trailer to the lake and back. Approximately an our each way, at most. We put the selector in 3, and send it. All 3 of us have driven it this way (me, my wife, and oldest daughter) and it drives like it should, considering what it is and what it's pulling.

 

[NickTransmissions]

I was going to PM this link, but I guess you get bombarded with messages, as the start a conversation button is not on your profile. This is the thread.... https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/gear-swap-from-3-42%E2%80%99s-to-3-73%E2%80%99s-worth-it.155864/

Thanks - I actually now remember reading that and was going to respond but got side-tracked...For others reading, here's the quote from the Tahoeyukon.com forum member in question:

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I'll address his points one at a time, starting with the first sentence; all of my commentary is directly applicable to the 4L60E and relevant to the 700R4.

"Placing the shifter in 3, 2 or 1 burns up overrun clutches over time" - Not sure where or why he believes this to be the case but the overrun clutch pack (two friction-lined plates and two flat steel plates along with a backing plate), are applied whenever someone places the shifter in Manual Low (1) or Manual 2nd. They are NOT applied when the shifter is placed in D3 until you shift automatically into third gear while remaining in D3. The Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve enables the overrun clutches to come on in 1st or 2nd gear when placing the shifter into D3 like they do w/the 700r4.

My recommendation: If towing and hauling, manually shift from D1 (manual low) until you get to third gear then leave it in third until road speeds force engine RPM to exceed 2700 or so. Then shift to OD if on a level grade only...Shift back into D3 if encountering grades or when back on surface streets. I would recommend installing the Sonnax HD 2-3 shift valve kit for anyone with a 4L60E that uses it in a performance or HD capacity.

"Since 1993, the 4L60E will last longer between rebuilds if the PCM is tuned to use the gears you want..." - He is not wrong to recommend a good 4L60E tune for the PCM, especially for non-stock applications however there's no downside risk to manual shifting that I am aware of...GM placed a mind-boggling amount of resources and intellectual/physical capital in the development of these transmissions so if there were any material downside risks to manual shifting, especially in HD/working type roles, you wouldn't have the ability to manually shift the trans. GM would have designed that feature out of the unit before it went into production.

My recommendation: See above recommendation

"Mechanical manuals have even less in common with electronically commanded automatics than with mechanical ones" - paraphrased - yes, this is true to some extent as the computerization is another variable/differentiator

My recommendation: N/A

 

[DoubleDingo]

Thank you. I figured he had some valid points, delivery is horrible, and getting straight answers doesn't seem to happen.

I have read a lot more, and a good tune does sound like a good way to go to get shift points where you want them. Need to investigate that some more on how to achieve it.

In the meantime I'll shift it like I was for around town, leaving it out of od, and when or if towing, shift it per your recommendations. I'll look into getting the HD 2-3 shift valve. I've read the corvette servo is a good upgrade as well, I have that bookmarked from Oregon Performance Transmission, and will order that soon. I plan to watch all of your videos, I already watched the tear down video. I want to understand these things the best I can. Mine has 156k on it, and it seems to operate just fine, and I want it to stay that way as long as possible.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Thank you. I figured he had some valid points, delivery is horrible, and getting straight answers doesn't seem to happen.

I have read a lot more, and a good tune does sound like a good way to go to get shift points where you want them. Need to investigate that some more on how to achieve it.

In the meantime I'll shift it like I was for around town, leaving it out of od, and when or if towing, shift it per your recommendations. I'll look into getting the HD 2-3 shift valve. I've read the corvette servo is a good upgrade as well, I have that bookmarked from Oregon Performance Transmission, and will order that soon. I plan to watch all of your videos, I already watched the tear down video. I want to understand these things the best I can. Mine has 156k on it, and it seems to operate just fine, and I want it to stay that way as long as possible.

Thanks for watching my videos, appreciate the support...Here's what you need to do for the HD 2-3 shift valve:

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LMK if you have any questions...It's a pretty straight-forward deal...I'd also pick up some o-ringed end plugs, Sonnax abuse valve / bore plug kits (you'll need two) and the vette servo. Make sure your band clearance is 1/8-3/16 upon install. This video will show you how to measure and adjust:

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[DoubleDingo]

Thanks for watching my videos, appreciate the support...Here's what you need to do for the HD 2-3 shift valve:

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LMK if you have any questions...It's a pretty straight-forward deal...I'd also pick up some o-ringed end plugs, Sonnax abuse valve / bore plug kits (you'll need two) and the vette servo. Make sure your band clearance is 1/8-3/16 upon install. This video will show you how to measure and adjust:

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I was just getting ready to elaborate on this, you posting the videos and the extra info gives some homework.

From what I've read the HD 2-3 kit, it improves engine braking, which this vehicle doesn't seem to have much. I've never had a 4l60e so I don't know how they operate, I am learning every day.

 

[89Suburban]

I was going to PM this link, but I guess you get bombarded with messages, as the start a conversation button is not on your profile. This is the thread.... https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/gear-swap-from-3-42%E2%80%99s-to-3-73%E2%80%99s-worth-it.155864/

I deleted all of my posts from that forum and that thread. That dude made my blood boil, and I chose to leave instead of ignore him. Should have just ignored him, but I figured I could get better info over here from you, and not have to deal with him anymore.

I have ran the 4l60e in 3rd on numerous occasions, and it keeps the rpms in a better range, especially around town, but haven't for about a month because of the exchange over there.

You say over 60 mph shift into OD, what if you're going with the flow of traffic at 70 mph on a steep or long grade? Slow down, or shift into od and have it upshift and downshift over and over? I like to leave it in 3rd on steep or long grades until the grades somewhat level off, but if it'll roast the 4l60e, I guess I need to rethink that. The grades in question can be navigated at 60-70 mph speeds. In my Jeep with AW4, I have ran it in 3rd for over 20 years, around town, steep grades, od for flat-ish terrain and highway cruising. I had planned to drive the Tahoe in a similar fashion but have since chickened out driving like that because I don't want to roast the transmission. Tow mode, the shift points are too high for simple around town driving, so I tend to do a dance of tow mode and regular mode depending on speeds around town.

I'm sorry you has a bad experience over there brother. That guys is quirky but he means well. You in good hands with Nick, he is the man.