1977 C10 not getting fuel

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Drewthedew2013

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1977
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C10 Heavy-Half
Engine Size
350ci
Hey all, last year i purchased a 1977 chevy c10 heavy half, and in the past year i have been driving it, with just small problems. but this past summer my float sunk so i re-built the carburetor and put a new fuel filter in, as well as a new fuel pump because the old one leaked. Then recently the truck ran rough when sitting in traffic after a few minutes, i never really looked into it, but then 2 days ago i was coming home from class sitting in traffic and it began to run rough, i didn't think much of it until it died, and it would not restart. So me and my brother towed it home with his truck. I started to troubleshoot and i realized it wasn't getting fuel. So i warranted my pump, put a new fuel filter in and it ran, but it ran rough. i drove it until it warmed up and then again, it died with no fuel coming into the carb. Im out of ideas on what it could be other than the carb.
The truck has duel tanks and a 350 auto.
 

jux

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How often do you use both tanks, and how often do you switch? Also, how full do you generally keep them? Could the tanks be filled with gunk from being old or sitting for awhile?

What kind of carb is this?

Did you install the fuel pump? All the connections and hoses the same as before, and in good shape? Perhaps you could install a clear visible fuel filter to see if gas is flowing through and if it's dirty. Also, after that you could install a fuel pressure gauge in the line, they are in any autozone/other car stores for not much money. That would tell you if everything is working properly up to the carb.
 

foamypirate

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It's possible the vent on the tank is plugged. Try running the truck without a gas cap and see if it improves. If so, you have a venting issue.
 

Drewthedew2013

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I use both tanks regularly. Its a quadrajet 4bbl. yes i installed it, everything's the same.. i know nothing is getting up to the carb once its at idle when warm. i think there might be another filter under the cab or the fuel tank selector valve may have gone out.
 

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It's possible that there is a fuel line that's sucking air at the selector valve.
 

Boone83K10

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You say it happens when at idle and then you can't crank it.

Sounds like vapor lock to me.

The fuel is turning into a gas before it gets to the fuel pump or carb.

Check the routing of the gas lines from the tank all the way to the carb and I bet one is too close to something hot. (exhaust or engine)
 

Drewthedew2013

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ok so I got the truck to run, and run ok, it stumbles a bit from a dead stop though, and it still will not start cold unless I prime it, almost like the fuel from the bowl is draining down the line
 

Irishman999

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Get it running, shut it off and take the fuel line loose. If the fuel line seems to be under pressure and sprays gasoline everywhere the carburetor could be plugged up full of ****.

The **** I am talking about is rotted rubber hose particles, it looks like black sand inside the carburetor. I had a very similar experience with mine, I could not figure out how the carb was plugged and the clear fuel filter was brand new looking.

If its not that, I am going to agree with vapor lock.
 

Drewthedew2013

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I tried that, not a ton of fuel came out so I don't think the carb is gummed up. It is still hard to start when cold, I have to prime it still. Any ideas on why the bowl is draining back into the line?
 

chengny

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I suppose the first check is always sufficient fuel flow (i.e quantity of gas delivered per minute into an open container).

Release the fuel pump discharge line at the carb inlet, stick a rubber hose on the open end of the gas line and lead the other end of the hose into a coffee can, mason jar, anything as long as it can hold 16 oz.

Crank the engine - it does not need to be running - for 15 seconds while directing the flow of fuel into your container.

If your pump will move at least a pint of gas in the 15 seconds - you have demonstrated good fuel capacity across the entire system (up to but not including the internals of the carburetor). Also, while the cup is filling, keep the end of the hose submerged and watch closely for entrained air bubbles in the gas stream- more on that later.

The next test is pump discharge pressure.

There is an involved procedure for this test that involves cutting into the fuel line between the pump and carb, inserting a tee with a gauge on it and checking the pressure with the engine idling. It is supposed to be about 5-7 psi in case you are interested.

An easier way is to just dead end a gauge on the gas line that is already open for the capacity test. There should be enough fuel in the bowl to get a pressure reading before you run dry and the engine stops - or you can keep it running with ether.

Then there is my way - the hillbilly way; while your assistant is cranking the engine for the 15 second capacity test, play with the stream of gas. Pinch the hose and release it, if it blasts out strongly when you unkink the hose - you're okay. Remember you are only looking for 5 psi. Alternately, you can put your thumb over the end of the hose and play with it like a little kid sprays a garden hose. If the gas can be shot any distance - say only 5-6 feet for while you make your finger nozzle - again you have good enough pressure.

The third thing to check is the condition of the suction piping. This includes the metal lengths as well as any rubber jumpers. Look for kinks, bulging or otherwise distorted sections that could indicate areas where flow restriction might occur. This type of damage will cause an otherwise good pump to appear bad - it is starved for flow.

Sometimes (actually most of the time) suction line problems only become apparent under heavy loads (i.e. periods of high fuel flow).

Closely related to restrictions in the suction piping is air ingress. While inspecting the suction lines look for signs of possible leakage - into the line. These areas will normally be found in piping that is above the normal fuel level within the tank. That was the reason to watch for air bubbles while doing the flow test - but lack of bubbles does not guarantee a tight suction line.

These air leaks are not usually noticeable. While the pump is running, it draws the air in along with the gas from the tank. This entrained air will ultimately end up in the carb and will also reduce pump capacity at high flow rates.

It is conventional wisdom that if there is no gasoline on the driveway - well there isn't any leaks. Not so. If the leaks are located above the level in the tank; when the engine is shut down and the pump stops pumping - the gas is allowed to drain back into the tank and air fills the suction line. No leaks to the driveway but air can still be getting in.

Any ideas on why the bowl is draining back into the line?

As the engine sits idle, the gas in the discharge side of the system (due to head pressure can also back flow if the check valves within the pump are not perfectly tight. As the gas flow back down by gravity, it is displaced by the air that leaked in.
 

Drewthedew2013

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So, the past few days me and my father have been working on the issue, magically the truck fixed its self for a while, but then again today the problem re-appeared. So we tried chengny's trick and found out there is VERY little fuel coming through the line. So we decided to blow air through the line and try and see if there was gunk stuck in the lines, but we found nothing after about 1/8 gallon of fuel. So we decided the new pump must be defective, so therefor im going to warranty the pump tomorrow, install it and report back.
 

chengny

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So we decided to blow air through the line and try and see if there was gunk stuck in the line, but we found nothing after about 1/8 gallon of fuel.

What line did you blow air through - the line from the tank to fuel pump inlet?

How did you do that and witness an 1/8 of a gallon of fuel be discharged at the pump inlet? The only way I can think of is to apply air pressure to the gas tank with the pump inlet line disco'd.

You can't really force fuel through a mechanical pump by pressurizing the suction side (there are check valves within the pump that get in the way).

So I hope you didn't condemn the pump by applying air pressure to the tank and measuring flow at the pump outlet or (carb inlet). That would not be a valid test. A properly operating fuel pump won't allow fuel to be forced through - matter of fact, one with bad check valves would actually allow better flow.

How about air? Was there any air in the fuel that came out of the pump when you did the capacity test? Did you submerge the end of the hose while the engine was cranking over?
 
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Drewthedew2013

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I forgot to mention that, it was from the tank to the line directly before the pump. I watched it the whole time while we shot air through it, only a little bit of air came out at first but the rest was clean fuel. I should have tried to run the truck off a gas can after that test but we ran out of time
 

Drewthedew2013

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We got the new pump on, we then started it off a gas can and ran it off the can. After that we tried running it off the tanks, nothing, wont get any fuel. So it could be the selector valve or lines in the tanks, im leaning more toward the pickup lines in the tank because when i blow air through the engine side, it sounds like air coming through the tank, not bubbles. But when you blow it through the tank fuel comes out.
 

chengny

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I doubt that the drop line in the tank would fail, never seen it - never mind fail in both tanks - on the same day.

It doesn't sound like an obstruction issue. You can pressurize the tank with air and get fuel flow out of the fitting that connects to the pump inlet - right? Does this work on both tanks?

I still think there is a leak in the pump suction piping - external to the tanks. And, since the pump won't pull from either tank, I would assume it's in the common line.

I don't know these trucks very well but if it's not too much of a hassle, try this:

Remove the section of hose that leads from the RH side tank outlet (where the steel tubing ends) to the Pollak valve inlet. Also disco the gas line hose where it clamps onto the fuel pump inlet nipple.

Go out and buy 10- 12 feet of appropriately sized rubber hose (1/4" - 3/8"?).

Run that hose as a temporary by-pass around the Pollak valve and the entire length of the original fuel line. Connect it from the steel tubing on one end (where it comes out of the tank), all the way to the steel nipple on the pump inlet.

Try to start (and run) the truck normally.

If it runs like it should, that means the fuel flow (or air leak) problem is in either the tank switch valve or the pump suction line (between the valve outlet and the pump inlet).

Narrow it down further by using a length of hose to by-pass just the Pollak valve.

If it starts and runs okay - the Pollak valve is the issue.

If the pump still cannot prime and move fuel - even with the valve by-passed - the problem is in the section of fuel line between the selector valve outlet and the gas pump inlet.

Verify this by running the temporary hose from the valve outlet to the pump inlet.
 
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