Chuck’s engine build thread!

TotalyHucked said:

Like, what? Where did y'all come from and where did you get that info??

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The internet.

They're wholly internet creatures parroting what they've read, heard, been told.

People take great joy in being condescending to strangers and pooping in their cornflakes on the internet for a like react throwing around words and phrases like "proper" and "done right" and "for my builds/customers"

In reality they have either not built anything in years, have never built anything, have something exploded all over their yard and took some photos of the fancy parts they'll never actually install for Instagram.

I always check these peoples profiles/post history, they're inevitably devoid of any threads, builds, posts of any helpful nature.

There's nothing wrong with being an overachiever, doing great work, buying fine parts, whatever. But there's also nothing wrong with drawing a line, where ever you choose personally, and saying, this is how far I'm willing to go, the end.

I've personally seen a dingle ball honed, 882 head on one side, 545 head on the other side engine slammed together in a dirt driveway and proceed to haul firewood, boats and trailers for the next 10 years with no air cleaner on it.

I've also had the most expensive, aftermarket block, billet crank, torque plate honed small block destroy itself in 1000'

TotalyHucked said:

I've been seeing the same thing all over the internet "don't use plastigage, it's not accurate. You're a hack if you don't have bore gauges/mics/etc". Like, what? Where did y'all come from and where did you get that info??

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Lots of armchair experts out there. I’d be willing to bet most of those people have never used a dial bore gauge and micrometers, or even been into the bottom end of an engine. No different than all the paint and body experts that have never painted anything.

I’ll interject my thoughts and opinions as a machinist by trade, not an engine/automotive machinist however. First though, in the GM service manuals, they show and say to use plastigage for checking bottom end clearances.

In my opinion, best practice would be to mic the crank, and sweep the rods with a dial bore gauge, and use plastigage to check as assembled.

Plastigage has one big advantage over a mic and DBG, it’s easy and nearly fool proof to use, as long as you don’t rotate the crank or put it at the parting line. Dial bore gauges and mics are not necessarily hard to use, but to get reliable and repeatable and trustworthy measurements do take some technique and practice. There are far more opportunities to introduce errors into the system. That is a large part of the reason that in production scenarios, special go-nogo gages are used, instead of mics and the like. Nearly anyone can walk a up and use a go-nogo setup without issue, you have 10 people mic something, you can very well end up with 10 different answers.

One thing that plastigage can’t really show is geometric issues, like out of roundness. But with an appropriate size micrometer, to mic the journals three places and take those measurements and basic location of the measurements and determine the roundness, then with some dead reckoning, factor it into the plastigage reading.

I am a big proponent of using two methods to check something critical not so much for the specific reading/numbers, but as a sanity check. It’s not hard to get in a hurry and misread a mic or indicator. Every machinist has done it, and those that might claim they haven’t either have not been in the trade long or are a liar lol.

Completely agree on all accounts. The parroting has gotten crazy the last few years, I was just shocked at how many people suddenly think plastigage is a no-no. I would love to have some dial bore gauges and real mics at some point to be able to both methods, they just weren't in the budget for my engine when I did it. I'll get some some day, definitely agree on trying to do 2 techniques for a sanity check if nothing else. It's the same thing as measuring twice and cutting once

TotalyHucked said:

I've been seeing the same thing all over the internet "don't use plastigage, it's not accurate. You're a hack if you don't have bore gauges/mics/etc". Like, what? Where did y'all come from and where did you get that info??

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Sounds like you have been reading from the "experts" over on fakebook?

82SquareBurb said:

Sounds like you have been reading from the "experts" over on fakebook?

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Lol yep and on various forums

FWIW: Before there even was an internet all we had to rely on was the factory manuals, and the so called "bible" titled "Chevrolet power" if anyone remembers those. Well in that manual it specifically guides shops/engine builders to check bearing clearances with none other than plasti-guage.

Faceplant has cool car people? I must not be deep enough into it to see any of that.

There are cool videos that find their way onto my feed, but I haven't had the luck of running into anything like this site there. I must be blessed and don't realize it.

82SquareBurb said:

FWIW: Before there even was an internet all we had to rely on was the factory manuals, and the so called "bible" titled "Chevrolet power" if anyone remembers those. Well in that manual it specifically guides shops/engine builders to check bearing clearances with none other than plasti-guage.

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Plasti-guage is the go/no go of my time. Still was, I thought.

Let the internet AI types build without it. We'll see whose stuff lasts; ours or the terminators.

I refined my method and retried. Someone had told me to smear just a little film of Vaseline on the journal to ease the plastic removal but it was making thing erratic.

I just went to putting it on with everything completely dry and I’m getting .0017-.0018 (roughly) every time. I spoke to the machinist and he told me to send it, so I’m closing the book on that part of the job.

I double checked all the torque on the fasteners and the rod side clearance. The bottom end is now officially complete.

ChuckN said:

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I refined my method and retried. Someone had told me to smear just a little film of Vaseline on the journal to ease the plastic removal but it was making thing erratic.

I just went to putting it on with everything completely dry and I’m getting .0017-.0018 (roughly) every time. I spoke to the machinist and he told me to send it, so I’m closing the book on that part of the job.

I double checked all the torque on the fasteners and the rod side clearance. The bottom end is not officially complete.

You must be registered for see images attach

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Nice. Those numbers are fine, betting she spins nice and smooth by hand with very little effort as well, that's right in the range of where my last build was, with 10-30 she fired up and idled with right at about 50-55 psi.

Sounds like its good to go.

I think part of the reason Plastigauge has fallen out of favor is because there is so much chinese fake stuff out there, or expired ancient stuff that you could get some very whacky results. I had an engine reading very strange readings with thew plastigauge. Tried several different kinds and kept getting the same results that were NOT what I expected. Finally Mic'd and bore gauged it and sure enough, it was getting a true measurement. Turned out the standard 454 main bearing set is NOT correct for a Gen VI 454 and you need a different #1 and #5 bearing. Ordered a chevrolet performance bearing set specifically for a Gen VI and the clearances were perfect.

xm20k said:

Nice. Those numbers are fine, betting she spins nice and smooth by hand with very little effort as well, that's right in the range of where my last build was, with 10-30 she fired up and idled with right at about 50-55 psi.

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Spec says I think 45-55 ft lbs max? I set my torque wrench to the 30 minimum and it still wouldn’t click, lol. It does spin really free.

Looks like a solid build!

TotalyHucked said:

My dad, several of his friends, my friends and me have all used plastigage over the years and it's always been fine. I used to see it on Engine Power on Power Block, you wouldn't think those guys would use it if it weren't pretty accurate. But here all of a sudden, I've been seeing the same thing all over the internet "don't use plastigage, it's not accurate. You're a hack if you don't have bore gauges/mics/etc". Like, what? Where did y'all come from and where did you get that info??

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Pffft, Ohhh yeah, all the FB keyboard experts. Like all those that say you can't delete the ESC, or the Tip in switch is the converter lock up solenoid, or 3970010 is a high nickel block blahblahblahbullshit !!! I used plastiguage on many engines and engines spinning 8000rpm and I never had a rod failure or bearing problem at all. They must not know how to use it or buying the wrong size. IIRC, Green is what I used just about always. You know the colors are for different measurements.

Kind of in a delay right now. Went to get back to work yesterday and nothing worked out.

I got the Howards roller rockers (purple is awesome BTW) and had been waiting to thread in the 7/16 studs. So I figured I’d measure the piston to valve clearance. I got out one of the heads and put a couple checker springs on #1 and went to thread in the new studs. They’d thread in but wouldn’t bite. It was then that I realized that I bought 3/8 base threads instead of 7/16. In a moment of panic I took them back out and ran a chaser back down concerned that I’d ruined the threads. But they’re fine. Man, the things you do when you’re an inexperienced idiot. I put the old studs back in and they tighten down hard, and it doesn’t appear I lost any metal on the threads. So I got away with that one. The right studs are on the way.

I got to thinking, and went to YT and searched piston to valve clearance. Steve Morris had a good explanation. Apparently, the intake valve is chasing the piston down the bore and is closest at 10 ATDC. So I figure I can check the lobe lift at the cam at that degree, multiply it x 1.5 and see how much PTV clearance I have at the valve with the digital micrometer and add in the .040 compressed gasket thickness. That should get me my number, and do the same for exhaust at 10 BTDC. If anyone has any input on that please let me know.

In the meantime, the fuel pump threads are shot. They were bad before, and knew it when I put in the Edelbrock fuel pump, and had put in studs to be as easy on them as I could to keep from pulling on the threads too much (it worked). Someone before me had jimmied them up. So I have a kit to drill and helicoil and I hope to get that done today.