Car trailer with a problem

[SirRobyn0]

I don't think there is a trailer section, this seemed like the closest section, if admin feels the need to move it I promise not to get pissy like last time. But I need advice and I'd like it to come from the members here. So yesterday I bought a used car trailer, it's a nice looking trailer and is plenty big enough for what I need. It appeared in good shape when I bought the thing, then I got it home and noticed something. The tongue is bent up a bit at the box. Likely from someone overloading the thing. He also had a winch mounted on the tongue so it's possible that the damage was done dragging something up on it. I've been all over underneath the thing with a straight edge and nothing else is bent that I can see.

I have mixed feelings about this. Part of me wants to leave it alone, part of me wants to try to fix it at home, part of me wants to have professional welder straighten and reinforce it. See pics below.

First two pics of the trailer to give you a general idea of what it is. Intent is to use for utility purposes, plus to haul my old Cadillac.

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Below, the plate that he had the winch mounted to.

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Below 2 pictures of the bend, as you can it's a little shy of 3", it seems to be bent only right where the tongue meets the box, actually directly in front of the box, but going from that spot to 48" up the tongue equals 3" off, that's getting close to the coupler so it might be a total of close 3 1/2" of difference by the time you get to the coupler. Trailer pull straight and nice on the road despite this.

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Other than to have not bought this trailer in the first place, what would you do now?

 

[SDJunkMan]

I don't know how you would straighten it without a frame rack or some way of holding the trailer and pulling the tongue down. You might have to cut the tongue off and replace it. It seems kind of long, which might have been part of the problem. They must have really overloaded it to bend it, I abuse the hell out of my trailers but have never bent a tongue like that.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I don't know how you would straighten it without a frame rack or some way of holding the trailer and pulling the tongue down. You might have to cut the tongue off and replace it. It seems kind of long, which might have been part of the problem. They must have really overloaded it to bend it, I abuse the hell out of my trailers but have never bent a tongue like that.

Yea, that is what I was thinking when I first saw it. I thought it must be some sort of optical illusion until I put a straight edge to it. That is a possibility, seeing what a body shop would charge to straighten it on a frame rack, or if they can.

 

[HotRodPC]

I don't think there is a trailer section, this seemed like the closest section, if admin feels the need to move it I promise not to get pissy like last time. But I need advice and I'd like it to come from the members here. So yesterday I bought a used car trailer, it's a nice looking trailer and is plenty big enough for what I need. It appeared in good shape when I bought the thing, then I got it home and noticed something. The tongue is bent up a bit at the box. Likely from someone overloading the thing. He also had a winch mounted on the tongue so it's possible that the damage was done dragging something up on it. I've been all over underneath the thing with a straight edge and nothing else is bent that I can see.

I have mixed feelings about this. Part of me wants to leave it alone, part of me wants to try to fix it at home, part of me wants to have professional welder straighten and reinforce it. See pics below.

First two pics of the trailer to give you a general idea of what it is. Intent is to use for utility purposes, plus to haul my old Cadillac.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Below, the plate that he had the winch mounted to.

You must be registered for see images attach

Below 2 pictures of the bend, as you can it's a little shy of 3", it seems to be bent only right where the tongue meets the box, actually directly in front of the box, but going from that spot to 48" up the tongue equals 3" off, that's getting close to the coupler so it might be a total of close 3 1/2" of difference by the time you get to the coupler. Trailer pull straight and nice on the road despite this.

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Other than to have not bought this trailer in the first place, what would you do now?

The thread is fine where it's at. This is an "Other Vehicle".

If that trailer is built like I think most of them are, then the tongue is actually separate and welded to the main rectangular frame underneath. Is that 2 1/2 in channel iron? I going to suggest lose that 2 1/2 in all together. Have the welds grinded off and remove it. Replace it with 3 1/2 inch or 4 inch channel iron. The thickness matters too, but that just looks puny to me. Maybe it's the pic angle but just doesn't look strong enough for a car trailer IMO. You don't want to use square tubing cuz that'll be overkill and to heavy. Try to keep it as light as possible, but with at least enough strength to stay safe. I'll look for some of my previous trailer pics. I've had trucks with big blocks in them on my trailers and never had a problem like that. Do you have 3500lb axles or 5000lb axles? Most likely Dexter axles and brakes if it has them. 5 lug wheels are usually 3500, 6 lug is usually 5000lb and 8 lug is 6200lb axles. Just a rule of thumb.

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[HotRodPC]

Yea, that is what I was thinking when I first saw it. I thought it must be some sort of optical illusion until I put a straight edge to it. That is a possibility, seeing what a body shop would charge to straighten it on a frame rack, or if they can.

Most places who sell those type trailers do mods to trailers, like add brakes, add an axle, weld on different type tongue jacks or upgrade hitch type, like I prefer bulldog collar lok hitches on my trailers and had one changed out. So if they do that, they can probably cut that tongue off and weld you on a 3 1/2 tongue and bulldog collar lok hitch. You might even find a welder guy to do it cheaper if you bought a stick of steel yourself. It's usually sold in 22 foot lengths, but if you measure what length you need on the trailer now, they will usually give you a cut or 2 for FREE and then you've already got it cut to length. I'd about bet, it would be cheaper to replace it than have it repaired and then you have the added strength so it doesn't happen again.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Id say they had a heavy load, far forward, with a downward slope towards hitch(improper drop or just too heavy).The location of the winch mount and how far back to the trailer makes me think it wouldnt be able to put that bend in, esp the curvature. Unless that crosspiece was added soley after the bend and the winch was on the tongue, then perfect point for leverage.


My homeade trailer is rectangular tubing, at least 3 inches tall and 1 inch wide(could vary, but would be closest guess) on the tongue. It comes in from both sides to a point about 5 feet from the trailer, with a middle intersecting(but "above") tube down the center which the tongue mounts on and the intersecting sides weld to the buttom just before the tongue. This is a very sturdy design and its definitely been overloaded, but where the axles sit and length, you can easily carry most loads without putting too much over the tongue vs axles, to keep balanced loads. This whole setup is likely very excessive, but my grandpa probably got the tubing for free since he did metal work for a career many years ago.

Because of my example, im with hotrod on this one. You dont want overkill. The trailer unloaded with no jack requires all my lifting effort to pull off the ground, especially downhill. Ill often stand on the back of the trailer, tip it up, and shimmy the trailer so when i get off it falls on a block so i can lift it the rest of the way.

Ill be putting a jack on soon.

But i tell you my setup because if you want to go the route of repair, I think hotrod idea of channel is the better idea, because you can have a structural setup but in fabbing you give yourself options. Would you like a shorter tongue(might not be bad idea)? Would you like to retain winch capability? If so, my idea of a center support gives you a very solid brace and support while giving you perfect opportunity to add a jack/wheel/winch/toolbox, etc, you name it. Because a winch pulling as low to the trailer as to not catch, bind, or snag while also not being too low so its not trying to pull the vehicle down vs onto the trailer means you wont put undue stress on the mounting point, the tongue, since its supported.

My trailer has a winch that mounts about 3 inches off the deck if it were pulled out parrel that secures with some heavy duty bolts about midway the tongue, so you could use pulleys if needed and have room to work with. In the case of my garbage trailer(a squarebody bed made into a trailer) its the frame channel made into an A and welded where it was bent. Definitely need to have strong welds, mine is going to need some support, because it was bent. Had it been cut it may have been a bit better, but I was gonna explore possibly using another crossmember to take stress off the welds/bend and move to larger area. With the tongue setup, Im gonna need to do some work to mount a jack that I want properly, but I am considering adding a truck toolbox on the tongue so I can store chocks, shovels, rakes, etc(items I throw in the truck toolbox, always gotta make room.)

Hope my story and insight helps, its a nice looking trailer. If you need to decide on more factors, consider width of usable space. My trailer was designed for hauling old tractors and equipment, most never got very wide or could be adjusted to fit narrow. So my deck gets tight with large cars, unusable with trucks without rubbing and being perfect straight, my uncles race car would fit damn near perfectly, but no wiggle room. Wheel under deck, wider trailers, or maximum deck to fender/wheel area have a nice quality. Also, ramps. Nice, lightweight ramps arent anything to joke about, they are QOL at its finest. Pull out ramps vs drop, stow away, 2 vs 1, tilt vs no tilt, stake holders(nice), etc.

 

[bucket]

I've seen trailers get bent like that, always from being heavily loaded and getting hauled through rough terrain. As long as it doesn't get abused like it did in the past, it should be ok how it is.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I've seen trailers get bent like that, always from being heavily loaded and getting hauled through rough terrain. As long as it doesn't get abused like it did in the past, it should be ok how it is.

I could see, either side of that tongue gets close enough in ground and a shift of weight forward, I could see it acting like a vice or anvil and that weight just kinks the tongue since it bottomed out, in a sense. Or just all the undue forces not normally encountered. I know when I pull my trailer that Ive posted about across a bumpy patch in my yard, I think "ouch" as it violently shifts, jerks ,pulls up, pushes down because those leaf springs arent doing much, as most trailers arent supposed to be able to. And now say a big ol load of gravel was in there, hit a bump while the truck is on an incline with the trailer still on flat or downhill, that force is gonna be shocking through that frame rail if you hit it fast enough, now add more instances and a weaker tongue and a bigger load.

 

[HotRodPC]

I've seen trailers get bent like that, always from being heavily loaded and getting hauled through rough terrain. As long as it doesn't get abused like it did in the past, it should be ok how it is.

I too wouldn't be afraid to use it so long as I didn't overload it and it still pulls straight without a drag until I got it fixed. I still think I'd replace the iron with 3.5 inch channel of the same thickness that is being used now. All that really needs replaced is the 2 pieces that go under the frame to make the V part of the tongue. Then I'd also have the Bulldog Collar Lok Hitch welded to the nose or bottom of the V with safety chains. It should handle a 5500 lb vehicle then just fine.

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[SirRobyn0]

First of all, thanks for all of you who have posted so far I really appreciate the advise. This is exactly why I posted here instead of finding some trailer forum to post to, there is a such a vast knowledge across the members I knew I'd get good advise and different ideas.

The thread is fine where it's at. This is an "Other Vehicle".

If that trailer is built like I think most of them are, then the tongue is actually separate and welded to the main rectangular frame underneath. Is that 2 1/2 in channel iron? I going to suggest lose that 2 1/2 in all together. Have the welds grinded off and remove it. Replace it with 3 1/2 inch or 4 inch channel iron. The thickness matters too, but that just looks puny to me. Maybe it's the pic angle but just doesn't look strong enough for a car trailer IMO. You don't want to use square tubing cuz that'll be overkill and to heavy. Try to keep it as light as possible, but with at least enough strength to stay safe. I'll look for some of my previous trailer pics. I've had trucks with big blocks in them on my trailers and never had a problem like that. Do you have 3500lb axles or 5000lb axles? Most likely Dexter axles and brakes if it has them. 5 lug wheels are usually 3500, 6 lug is usually 5000lb and 8 lug is 6200lb axles. Just a rule of thumb.

So it's a 7,000LB trailer with 5 lug wheels, 3,500lb axles, both axles are braked. I have not measured the tongue but I think it's 4" channel iron, it's not any smaller 3 1/2", I do not know the gauge of the steel, I was going to take another picture but I haven't, it doesn't look flimsy to me. The channel iron is welded on to the trailer frame almost all the way back to the fender.

Most places who sell those type trailers do mods to trailers, like add brakes, add an axle, weld on different type tongue jacks or upgrade hitch type, like I prefer bulldog collar lok hitches on my trailers and had one changed out. So if they do that, they can probably cut that tongue off and weld you on a 3 1/2 tongue and bulldog collar lok hitch. You might even find a welder guy to do it cheaper if you bought a stick of steel yourself. It's usually sold in 22 foot lengths, but if you measure what length you need on the trailer now, they will usually give you a cut or 2 for FREE and then you've already got it cut to length. I'd about bet, it would be cheaper to replace it than have it repaired and then you have the added strength so it doesn't happen again.

Did you have the tongue replaced as well? If so what did it cost you? Do you run any kind of weight distributing hitch? Do you tow it with your square? Sorry about all the questions I have little 4X8 untility trailer but the big 18' car trailer is the first big heavy trailer I've owned. I need to get straps for when I have car on it to.

Id say they had a heavy load, far forward, with a downward slope towards hitch(improper drop or just too heavy).The location of the winch mount and how far back to the trailer makes me think it wouldnt be able to put that bend in, esp the curvature. Unless that crosspiece was added soley after the bend and the winch was on the tongue, then perfect point for leverage.

I appreciate the story and feel bad about cutting it off in the quote but trying to save space. So I did some googling yesterday and the first thing I learned is when trailers like these are over loaded to the point the tongue bends it's common for the axles to get bent or other parts of the frame. While the wood decking boards are not perfectly flat, I crawled all over under that thing and I could not find a single bit of frame bent, and the axles are straight as well, which leads me to believe that improper loading / or a over loaded and improperly loaded and perhaps the road driven on was the cause. Maybe the winch if some moron drug something heavy on the trailer without it being attached to a truck, but who knows. I'll never know. I like the trailer and it's what I wanted so I'm not to pissed off about it, but had I caught it before I bought it I would have tried to negotiate a lower price because of it.

I've seen trailers get bent like that, always from being heavily loaded and getting hauled through rough terrain. As long as it doesn't get abused like it did in the past, it should be ok how it is.

Well I don't scale my tongue or trailer when loading, but I've had trucks and the little trailer I not saying I've never run over weight, but I understand the importants of being safe and using reasonable caution with a load. I really appropriate you saying that. I'm going on a 200 mile run tomorrow in the square with the trailer, what I'm picking up is only 1,200 lbs, and next weekend I need to do 300 miles to pick up a 2,000 lb tractor and bring it home. I've been looking for a trailer for a long time, but I had planned to do these runs with a U-haul trailer, good to know I won't have to go back to that plan.

I could see, either side of that tongue gets close enough in ground and a shift of weight forward, I could see it acting like a vice or anvil and that weight just kinks the tongue since it bottomed out, in a sense. Or just all the undue forces not normally encountered. I know when I pull my trailer that Ive posted about across a bumpy patch in my yard, I think "ouch" as it violently shifts, jerks ,pulls up, pushes down because those leaf springs arent doing much, as most trailers arent supposed to be able to. And now say a big ol load of gravel was in there, hit a bump while the truck is on an incline with the trailer still on flat or downhill, that force is gonna be shocking through that frame rail if you hit it fast enough, now add more instances and a weaker tongue and a bigger load.

Actually you have point there. Lets say it wasn't over loaded. it had 4,000 pounds of something evenly loaded, guy goes in somewhere and the rear end of the trailer gets drug on the pavement. Maybe, I don't know and we never will. I thought about calling the dude, but I doubt he was unaware of bend, he didn't mention it then, so screw him.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I too wouldn't be afraid to use it so long as I didn't overload it and it still pulls straight without a drag until I got it fixed. I still think I'd replace the iron with 3.5 inch channel of the same thickness that is being used now. All that really needs replaced is the 2 pieces that go under the frame to make the V part of the tongue. Then I'd also have the Bulldog Collar Lok Hitch welded to the nose or bottom of the V with safety chains. It should handle a 5500 lb vehicle then just fine.

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My caddy is just a hair over 5K so I'd like it to be all it can be, or at least not to have to worry about catastrophic failure. Appreciate you backing up bucket, like I said I need to use it. I will look into the bulldog colar lok, as I didn't know about it. I have thought of adding a temp safety chain from behind the bend to the winch base in case it let go there, but at least for now that doesn't sound like it's really needed.

 

[HotRodPC]

I didn't have my trailer repaired. It was built that way in the first place. Never had a problem putting vehicles on it. I am surprised yours is 4 inch channel and it bent like that. If I had to guess what did that, cuz I did see this happen before, someone tried to load a backhoe on one and it bent the trailer. So probably some kind of tractor. Maybe some heavy concrete? No, need for a that additional safety chain. It's not letting loose. That bending of that channel iron is a testament to how strong those welds are. The welds held on strong enough to be stronger than the iron itself. But yeah, if it's 4in now I'd say go back with it. It should be plenty strong with 4in channel so long as you don't exceed the 7000lbs. Glad to hear it's got brakes on both axles too. I did have brakes added to my 2nd axle. Not only for more stopping power but it makes all the brakes last alot longer too. Those brakes works very different from automobile brakes since they're electric not hydro.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I didn't have my trailer repaired. It was built that way in the first place. Never had a problem putting vehicles on it. I am surprised yours is 4 inch channel and it bent like that. If I had to guess what did that, cuz I did see this happen before, someone tried to load a backhoe on one and it bent the trailer. So probably some kind of tractor. Maybe some heavy concrete? No, need for a that additional safety chain. It's not letting loose. That bending of that channel iron is a testament to how strong those welds are. The welds held on strong enough to be stronger than the iron itself. But yeah, if it's 4in now I'd say go back with it. It should be plenty strong with 4in channel so long as you don't exceed the 7000lbs. Glad to hear it's got brakes on both axles too. I did have brakes added to my 2nd axle. Not only for more stopping power but it makes all the brakes last alot longer too. Those brakes works very different from automobile brakes since they're electric not hydro.

I just made an assumption based on the the condition of the paint, so instead I'll assume it's a newer trailer.

 

[HotRodPC]

I just made an assumption based on the the condition of the paint, so instead I'll assume it's a newer trailer.

Oh yeah, that was pretty much a like new trailer. I bought it brand new, had it for about 3 years and sold it for about what I paid for it since it was in such nice condition still. Only thing I did was add a couple coats of Thompson water seal on the wooden deck. It was a nice trailer.
It was an 18ft 7000lb trailer with all 4 wheel brakes, break away battery brake back up,
bull dog swing away tongue jack, slide in ramp storage, recessed lights, bull dog collar lok coupler. It was a nice one for sure. That's like my 4th trailer I've used for hauling vehicles on. Always had to sell them when I got into financial crisis but that's the one I wished I could have kept.

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[AuroraGirl]

Also, the place where that load was in relevance to the axles and hitch matter. Lets say you got 5k lb, all in front of the axle, up against the a frame. Thats a LOT of weight you are putting on an a from that goes to a ball, which mounts very well to a likely 3/4 or 1 ton truck, very planted. Say, you hit that theoretical bump or pinch it right, you got thousands of pounds trying to pivot on the a frame rather than ballasted out to the ball as hundreds of pounds

I didn't have my trailer repaired. It was built that way in the first place. Never had a problem putting vehicles on it. I am surprised yours is 4 inch channel and it bent like that. If I had to guess what did that, cuz I did see this happen before, someone tried to load a backhoe on one and it bent the trailer. So probably some kind of tractor. Maybe some heavy concrete? No, need for a that additional safety chain. It's not letting loose. That bending of that channel iron is a testament to how strong those welds are. The welds held on strong enough to be stronger than the iron itself. But yeah, if it's 4in now I'd say go back with it. It should be plenty strong with 4in channel so long as you don't exceed the 7000lbs. Glad to hear it's got brakes on both axles too. I did have brakes added to my 2nd axle. Not only for more stopping power but it makes all the brakes last alot longer too. Those brakes works very different from automobile brakes since they're electric not hydro.

Newer trailer. You see the steel they get these days? We make high grade, fan-*******-tastic steel thats so american it casts, no matter the cast form, into a perfect triage of red, white, and blue.

some space for whats to come





[FORUM REPLY CHECKPOINT]
GUYS, get ready for a long winded rant, this hit home for me.

But we sell all that steel overseas, lots to Japan.

Our steel? Oh we get steel from CHINA. So 4 inch channel from china dont surprise me, esp if its weaked by high stress impacts in the past, or maybe it thinner despite looking decent, or maybe its got poor blasting that it has low stress tolerances(carbon amount iirc) and when worked it cant take it. Perhaps it took impurities with it and its corroding inside out. Youve seen the horror stories. When we did tarrifs on China, which to a point i dont disagree, the solution wasnt increase domestic production or sell more here, it was just raise the cost to the consumer(commerical business) while also screwing the end-line consumer, by making scrap worthless for steel. Who won there?
Steel companies and government of China. Who lost? The government, the people, and the people of the peoples republic.

PS, i am 100% pro recylcing and lets reduce how much new we make, but it is straight up hilarious to expect people to diligantly recycle if you have to make them do a bulk of the work. Recylcing? Sorted. Hundreds of aluminum cans? 3 dollars. Sorry, unless the sorting is so easily done that its minimal effort, like giving everyone a can, they fill it unsorted, and it gets sorted down the line. or putting sorted recycling EVERYWHERE. Then also giving **** for scrap. Whats the point in taking in scrap metall, steel which is of high quality, and getting pennies? Just saying, if they want people to recycle its gotta be either convenient, or its gotta be lucrative for scrap hauling. There also needs to be no putting people down or throwing shame for not doing every thing they can to recycle. Look, I collect my oil, fluids, and i will eventually dispose of the damn near 200 gallons I have, but Its honestly easily something I could say **** it and the earth and dump, because its gonna require work. I wont do that, ill work something out, but I cant blame joe shmoe for doing it, because the nearest oil collection tanker shouldnt be 40 minutes drive, while yes places will take but not that quantity. But everyone isnt me, I for example dont care about a cat. converter. I will not remove a functioning, unrestrictive one, but if its gotta go for one reason or another, im not paying arm and leg for a device nonessential to the running of my vehicle. If they want people to put more on cars, they should sell them for something most people would pay , Id pay 75 dollars before I say **** it. So I dont want to hear anyone yell at Joe for polluting because he is a human that will live, die, and rot in the ground all before he has to worry about how it will affect earth and society, and hes not obligated to give a ****. So if you want joe to recycle, you should make recycling the not-intrusive or beneficial thing to do. But, that would hurt corporate profits and employee a **** load of americans, so lets just buy slavery steel.

Rant over, I really needed to say that. Someone got righteous with me and said my car was old so it kills the planet.
Honey, my car will emit far less than the environmental, not including human, impact your hybrid passes it in efficiency. You will also likely replace said vehicle before I replace mine. The environment-destroying my car did, its damage was 90% in 1998, once it was on the road, its 1999 Emissions standards kept it very low, and it being repaired and kept driving for years and years to come has paid itself times over. Your battery construction will take years to overtake my car in this moment, let alone the car of questionable elctronics and chemicals.