Transmission lengths and transmission humps for 70s trucks + clutch cylinder discussion

[Vbb199]

Hey all.

Im seeking a little info on something regarding manual transmissions and clutch cylinders.

As part of my "new build" for my AWD 5 speed c10... Im looking to convert my 79 c10 to a 5 speed manual with a AR5.
Originally it was a 3 on the tree, so I still have the pedals and all.

I converter it to a 3 speed th400, which meant changing columns and taking the pedal out... but im soon going to be putting the body on a AWD chassis I have, and slapping a 5 speed Aisin AR5 in there. (Dont worry, a build thread is coming... i got the trans this past weekend, im picking up the motor this coming weekend)

Here's my questions....
It appears the sm465 is 19.5" from engine block to shifter according to the web (maybe one of yall can confirm that for me)
The ar5 is like 24" from engine block to shifter... I think thats similar to a T56
I was kinda wondering if you guys who did 5 speed swaps in your c10 had issues with it hitting the bench seat?

And regarding trans hump tunnels, correct me if im wrong someone, but arent the manual transmission humps in those trucks slightly taller than automatic transmission humps? Im not sure if i'd even need a taller hump. The ar5 is pretty slick at the end. (Picture of it at the junkyard after i pulled it out of a colorado)

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Maybe someone here can tell me I already have the taller hump, and theres a nice knockout panel in my hump since it was a 3 speed saggy-naw (haha)



Now onto another question, regarding hydraulic clutch conversion for the guys who has mechanical clutches and switched to hydraulic....

As I said I already have a pedal and the hardware. The ar5 is hydraulic. I have AN fittings and lines already figured out.

How did you guys convert to hydraulic? I see 85-87 trucks used a hydraulic cylinder with a rod. (Pictured)

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Im just wondering if thats possibly something I could adapt/retro fit to my pedal assembly?

The kind of money these "3rd pedal hydraulic conversion" companies want wouldnt leave me any extra money to buy the crack rocks theyre smoking.

All together with a 86 cylinder, AN fittings, a reservoir, and my 79s pedal setup , I think i'd have <100$ invested...
Perhaps someone's got some insight there

Thanks guys

 

[squaredeal91]

I believe it would help to simply have the hydraulic pedals installed and then try to find where to put the hole for master cylinder.
I have a truck with hydraulic clutch so if you need reference pictures id probably be able to help that way. Also You can probably modify the existing pedal to work more like the hydraulic pedal. I think I have an extra pedal setup that can be referenced too.

 

[squaredeal91]

My other thought was...Is there enough room to mount in a master cylinder in place of the sm465s clutch fork and have pushrod push the master instead of the fork. You could use a different master with similar bore /stroke and have remote reservoir on firewall.

 

[Ricko1966]

Hey all.

Im seeking a little info on something regarding manual transmissions and clutch cylinders.

As part of my "new build" for my AWD 5 speed c10... Im looking to convert my 79 c10 to a 5 speed manual with a AR5.
Originally it was a 3 on the tree, so I still have the pedals and all.

I converter it to a 3 speed th400, which meant changing columns and taking the pedal out... but im soon going to be putting the body on a AWD chassis I have, and slapping a 5 speed Aisin AR5 in there. (Dont worry, a build thread is coming... i got the trans this past weekend, im picking up the motor this coming weekend)

Here's my questions....
It appears the sm465 is 19.5" from engine block to shifter according to the web (maybe one of yall can confirm that for me)
The ar5 is like 24" from engine block to shifter... I think thats similar to a T56
I was kinda wondering if you guys who did 5 speed swaps in your c10 had issues with it hitting the bench seat?

And regarding trans hump tunnels, correct me if im wrong someone, but arent the manual transmission humps in those trucks slightly taller than automatic transmission humps? Im not sure if i'd even need a taller hump. The ar5 is pretty slick at the end. (Picture of it at the junkyard after i pulled it out of a colorado)

You must be registered for see images attach

Maybe someone here can tell me I already have the taller hump, and theres a nice knockout panel in my hump since it was a 3 speed saggy-naw (haha)



Now onto another question, regarding hydraulic clutch conversion for the guys who has mechanical clutches and switched to hydraulic....

As I said I already have a pedal and the hardware. The ar5 is hydraulic. I have AN fittings and lines already figured out.

How did you guys convert to hydraulic? I see 85-87 trucks used a hydraulic cylinder with a rod. (Pictured)

You must be registered for see images attach

Im just wondering if thats possibly something I could adapt/retro fit to my pedal assembly?

The kind of money these "3rd pedal hydraulic conversion" companies want wouldnt leave me any extra money to buy the crack rocks theyre smoking.

All together with a 86 cylinder, AN fittings, a reservoir, and my 79s pedal setup , I think i'd have <100$ invested...
Perhaps someone's got some insight there

Thanks guys

I think it was @bluex did a whole right up on zbar pedals,with a hydraulic master,where and how he mounted it. How he attached it the pedals the whole ball of wax is written up nice. Hopefully he sees the tag and tells you where to find it or use some tag words and his ID see what you find in search.

 

[Ricko1966]

Found it screen shot some for you,but now you can find it the date is on one of the screenshots

 

[bluex]

Thread 'NV3500 swap' https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/nv3500-swap.16360/

 

[bluex]

I think the only auto trucks that got a high hump were 4x4s. I know mine doesn't have it, the 3500 is tight but it fit.

See if you can find the bore an stroke of the stock master for that trans an get a wilwood that matches or is close. Using the z-bar pedals is pretty easy. I stressed about setting it up but I haven't touched any of it since I installed it. The master I used works great an GM used the same internal throwout bearing in 3500/4500 and T56. Might be worth comparing to see if its the same for that trans too.

 

[pduffyd]

I converted my sm465 to hydraulic. But i just needed to change my 465 bell housing and clutch release fork to a later model 83 or newer? Which had the hydraulic slave mount cast on it and it allowed for a 12" clutch.
The pedal assembly was a mechanical clutch type. I just redrilled a pushrod hole in the pedal for the master. There are a few how to's on youtube about lining up the master on the firewall.

 

[Ricko1966]

I converted my sm465 to hydraulic. But i just needed to change my 465 bell housing and clutch release fork to a later model 83 or newer? Which had the hydraulic slave mount cast on it and it allowed for a 12" clutch.
The pedal assembly was a mechanical clutch type. I just redrilled a pushrod hole in the pedal for the master. There are a few how to's on youtube about lining up the master on the firewall.

There's a very good how to right here written up by @bluex and actually a person wouldn't have to change the bell housing or throw out bearing there are aftermarket external clutch slaves,push style and pull style, depending on your needs.

https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/upgrading-your-square-with-a-hydraulic-clutch.6589/page-3#post-308558

 

[AuroraGirl]

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There's a very good how to right here written up by @bluex and actually a person wouldn't have to change the bell housing or throw out bearing there are aftermarket external clutch slaves,push style and pull style, depending on your needs.

https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/upgrading-your-square-with-a-hydraulic-clutch.6589/page-3#post-308558

which one is this again

 

[Keith Seymore]

I think the only auto trucks that got a high hump were 4x4s. I know mine doesn't have it, the 3500 is tight but it fit.

See if you can find the bore an stroke of the stock master for that trans an get a wilwood that matches or is close. Using the z-bar pedals is pretty easy. I stressed about setting it up but I haven't touched any of it since I installed it. The master I used works great an GM used the same internal throwout bearing in 3500/4500 and T56. Might be worth comparing to see if its the same for that trans too.

Floor shifted manual trans C trucks (MY6 and M20) got high humps, as did all 4wd K trucks.

Column shifted 2wd C trucks (M62/M64 manual, plus all auto trans) got low hump floors.

K

 

[CalSgt]

I swapped from mechanical to hydraulic in my ‘80 years ago to fit an NV1500 5 speed.

Enlarged a hole in the firewall, and fabricated a linkage to fit a hydraulic master cylinder from a GMT-400.

You can see the hole just to the right of the brake rod hole and below the Speedo cable hole.

Lessons learned:
I would have bought a new master cylinder instead of a junkyard unit. The used one leaked into the cab and ruined the new carpet. It took several months for it to start leaking.

I used plastic line between the master and slave cylinder, it worked fine for a few months. The swap was done in winter, one the weather got warm the plastic would swell or flex enough to not fully disengage the clutch. Ended up swapping to hard lines.

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[Ricko1966]

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which one is this again

That was originally a manual linkage,bellcrank style. You can use a push style or pull style slave on it depending on what fits your needs best.Aftermarket push style would be the most common but occasionally some headers won't cleat the slave in which case you'd use a pull style. Left is pull style right is push style. I'm not a fan of how they made the bracket on the pull style,but wasn't going to search for a better one.

 

[83Stepper]

Floor shifted manual trans C trucks (MY6 and M20) got high humps, as did all 4wd K trucks.

Column shifted 2wd C trucks (M62/M64 manual, plus all auto trans) got low hump floors.

K

Can confirm this, 4wd auto/manual got the high humps as well as 2wd floor shifted manuals. My 3 on the tree 2wd has the low hump.

 

[bucket]

Floor shifted manual trans C trucks (MY6 and M20) got high humps, as did all 4wd K trucks.

Column shifted 2wd C trucks (M62/M64 manual, plus all auto trans) got low hump floors.

K

And apparently all 91's got the high hump, even if auto. Or at least the 2500/3500 rigs did. Can't remember the last time I saw a '91 R1500 Burb.