Traction aid in the front axle or not?

[PrairieDrifter]

For me, open diff 4x4 is the best for general use. I have had front and rear Detroits in two trucks before. It is a nightmare on icy streets. If the street is of camber it will walk sideways towards the ditch. I sold my F350 that was set up that way. In my Suburban I put an ARB in the back, just waiting for time/money to do one up front.

Great point! When open diffs slip they just spin one wheel and don't kick out. Especially like going up an icy hill.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Awesome pic!

Thanks! Was a pretty good blizzard! Over two feet in a couple of days.

 

[WRW86]

In researching a replacement for my failed G80, I’ve been looking closely at Detroit Truetracs for both the front and rear.

At the end of the day, on ice it doesn’t really matter whether you’re running an LSD, locker, spool, or open differential. If you’re on ice and spinning tires or carrying too much speed, traction is gone and your direction of travel is dictated by momentum and gravity, not the differential.

A few points from my research and experience:

• Detroit Truetracs are a gear-type (Torsen-style) LSD, so they operate the same in forward and reverse and don’t require friction modifiers.
• Being all-gear, there are no clutch packs to wear out, so performance stays consistent over time with minimal maintenance.
• Torque biasing is progressive and smooth, which makes them very predictable on-road and particularly well behaved in winter conditions.
• Like all LSDs, they won’t transfer torque if one wheel is completely off the ground unless some brake input is applied, since they still require resistance at both wheels.
• Compared to clutch-type LSDs, they don’t introduce chatter, binding, or steering push, which is especially important in a front differential.
• Clutch-type LSDs can provide higher static lock-up, but their effectiveness degrades as the clutches wear and they typically require friction modifiers and periodic rebuilds.
• Selectable lockers absolutely have their place for off-road use, but they’re expensive and generally not well suited for regular on-road driving, especially in winter.

For a mixed-use truck that sees real road miles and winter conditions, a gear-type LSD like the Truetrac tends to strike a better balance between traction, predictability, and drivability.

 

[77Dmax]

Thanks! Was a pretty good blizzard! Over two feet in a couple of days.

Two feet in a couple of days?

Buffalo- Hold my beer....

 

[AuroraGirl]

In researching a replacement for my failed G80, I’ve been looking closely at Detroit Truetracs for both the front and rear.

At the end of the day, on ice it doesn’t really matter whether you’re running an LSD, locker, spool, or open differential. If you’re on ice and spinning tires or carrying too much speed, traction is gone and your direction of travel is dictated by momentum and gravity, not the differential.

A few points from my research and experience:

• Detroit Truetracs are a gear-type (Torsen-style) LSD, so they operate the same in forward and reverse and don’t require friction modifiers.
• Being all-gear, there are no clutch packs to wear out, so performance stays consistent over time with minimal maintenance.
• Torque biasing is progressive and smooth, which makes them very predictable on-road and particularly well behaved in winter conditions.
• Like all LSDs, they won’t transfer torque if one wheel is completely off the ground unless some brake input is applied, since they still require resistance at both wheels.
• Compared to clutch-type LSDs, they don’t introduce chatter, binding, or steering push, which is especially important in a front differential.
• Clutch-type LSDs can provide higher static lock-up, but their effectiveness degrades as the clutches wear and they typically require friction modifiers and periodic rebuilds.
• Selectable lockers absolutely have their place for off-road use, but they’re expensive and generally not well suited for regular on-road driving, especially in winter.

For a mixed-use truck that sees real road miles and winter conditions, a gear-type LSD like the Truetrac tends to strike a better balance between traction, predictability, and drivability.

when in 2wd i definitely notice how direction is dictated by how much the rear spins when its locked , what would be a drift in an open differential becomes a drift where you perpetually keep moving hard right with throttle, because both tires spinning tries to walk the tires across when the traction is low

 

[Blazerbiker]

There seems to be a few of us with pretty good winter experience with a variety of vehicle setups here and my experience drops inline.

Open front for snow driving, period. Handling suffers severly when the front wheels are tied together in any way. I've had negative feedback from the amount of torque that it takes to unlock an automatic locker when it wasn't being powered. That isn't a whole lot of torque and it makes unpredictable stuff happen.
Locker or LSD of your choice (get tru trac type) for the rear. A locker will give you some goofy feedback in some situations but it's generally not hard to deal with and will vary a lot with the vehicle configuration. A locker in a short wheelbase rig with no rear weight is the worst.

After driving with an automatic locker in front of my K5 for a couple winters it came out and was replaced with an ARB. Later, when I had the chance to put a locker in front of my daily driver 'burb, I purposely left it open rather than installing the locker I had sitting on the shelf because of snow and ice driving. We also pulled a front locker from our K30 plow truck because it just wouldn't steer and made the truck push hard enough when chained up that it bent plow cylinders way too easy.

There's nothing wrong with selectable lockers for everyday use beyond the cost so if that's not a concern, get them. If it is a concern, just leave the front open and it'll be fine.

In the end, chains are the real answer...

 

[PrairieDrifter]

There seems to be a few of us with pretty good winter experience with a variety of vehicle setups here and my experience drops inline.

Open front for snow driving, period. Handling suffers severly when the front wheels are tied together in any way. I've had negative feedback from the amount of torque that it takes to unlock an automatic locker when it wasn't being powered. That isn't a whole lot of torque and it makes unpredictable stuff happen.
Locker or LSD of your choice (get tru trac type) for the rear. A locker will give you some goofy feedback in some situations but it's generally not hard to deal with and will vary a lot with the vehicle configuration. A locker in a short wheelbase rig with no rear weight is the worst.

After driving with an automatic locker in front of my K5 for a couple winters it came out and was replaced with an ARB. Later, when I had the chance to put a locker in front of my daily driver 'burb, I purposely left it open rather than installing the locker I had sitting on the shelf because of snow and ice driving. We also pulled a front locker from our K30 plow truck because it just wouldn't steer and made the truck push hard enough when chained up that it bent plow cylinders way too easy.

There's nothing wrong with selectable lockers for everyday use beyond the cost so if that's not a concern, get them. If it is a concern, just leave the front open and it'll be fine.

In the end, chains are the real answer...

Something I can agree with that makes sense! Didn't see anything I don't agree with.

Just like when you slam on the brakes in icy conditions and if the front wheels lock up sliding the INPUT does not matter. Where ever you're pointed when locking up the front brakes, is the way you're going until you either lose enough momentum, gain enough traction, or quit sliding the front tires/modulate brakes.

Also yes, chains. lol

 

[AuroraGirl]

Something I can agree with that makes sense! Didn't see anything I don't agree with.

Just like when you slam on the brakes in icy conditions and if the front wheels lock up sliding the INPUT does not matter. Where ever you're pointed when locking up the front brakes, is the way you're going until you either lose enough momentum, gain enough traction, or quit sliding the front tires/modulate brakes.

Also yes, chains. lol

then the fun time when you have a severely worn backing plate/misadjusted shoes and your driver rear wheel still spins in gear but the right side locks, meaning its moving on a set path from locking your wheels, if you dont pump its also trying to rotate it from the one tire spinning.
yay
thats the ford, anyway