New pinion gear is thicker than original

[CalSgt]

It seems that everything I do results in conflicting information. I just painted the ring after that last measurement, and it tells me that the pinion needs to be closer to the ring gear. I would think that would decrease my backlash, which is already below spec. I'll add shim to the pinion to bring it in. My assumption is that I would then need to adjust the carrier shim arrangement to bring the backlash into spec. Does that sound right?

You are patterning at the toe (towards carrier) on the concave side and at the heel (away from carrier) on the convex side, both of which are at the top edge (tip) of the gear face.

Your pattern should be moved towards the root a little, deeper into the ring gear.

Since your backlash is too tight I would pull some shim from the pinion and move the flanged side of the carrier towards the center of the housing a little and re-pattern.

Measure and record everything (backlash, shim thicknesses, Etc.) along the way, at some point in adjustments you may need to go back. Having everything recorded makes that a lot easier.

Are you checking pattern in a few different spots on the ring gear?

Full disclosure - setting up gears is a PIA even with tools and knowledge, some just require more assembly attempts than others. You're dealing with thousandths of an inch adjustments that can make night and day difference, math will always get you close but trial and error is where they end up quite often. Don't get discouraged because it isn't perfect (or done) after a few try's, every time you re-assemble it be mentally prepared that you are only bolting it together to inspect it so you know what the next adjustment will be. There's a reason shops charge so much for re-gearing

 

[Ricko1966]

If you need too build a simple case spreader. Top one,delete the top bar sub a threaded rod a scissor jack etc that will spread the case. Oh and use commo n sense you only need a few thousandths

 

[ucs75]

Thanks again,

I came in from measuring the latest setup, and found your responses. Unfortunately, I adjusted the pinion in to move the pattern deeper into the gear and thought I could then adjust the carrier shims to add back backlash (images attached). It sounds like that was the opposite of what I should have done. I'll go undo it, and go the other direction.

I'm recording all shims and measurements for each run and attaching the images as well. There's no way I'll remember anything otherwise.
The last couple runs, I haven't measured backlash, because it's so minute I can tell by feel that it hasn't moved from around .002.

Off to move the pinion out, and carrier to the right....

 

[Turbo4whl]

Thanks again,

I came in from measuring the latest setup, and found your responses. Unfortunately, I adjusted the pinion in to move the pattern deeper into the gear and thought I could then adjust the carrier shims to add back backlash (images attached). It sounds like that was the opposite of what I should have done. I'll go undo it, and go the other direction.

I'm recording all shims and measurements for each run and attaching the images as well. There's no way I'll remember anything otherwise.
The last couple runs, I haven't measured backlash, because it's so minute I can tell by feel that it hasn't moved from around .002.

Off to move the pinion out, and carrier to the right....

No, you made the correct choice with this post. Your first picture of the gear contact showed the pinion gear was not in deep enough.

Keep in mind you are trying to set up the backlash incorrectly. Set the pinion depth first, then move shims on the side bearings to set the lash.

 

[ucs75]

Moving the pinion out, my backlash was perfect, but the pattern returned to where I started. I attempted to add some shim to the left, but I went too much and couldn't fit them in.

At this point, I thought I should probably take a step back, and get the pinion pre-load figured out (using crush sleeve eliminator). The reason being that if I have the pinion bearing preload down, I should be able to work out the carrier preload.
That would let me know when I have the correct total sum of shims installed. Once I have the correct total, any adjustments would be a direct add/subtract from each side.

I figure that if I DON'T do this, I may eventually get the pattern and backlash correct, only to find that I need to make further adjustments - that knock it out again.

So....
I installed the pinion with with the eliminator, and a .010 shim, this gave me 3 inch-lbs of rotational resistance.
I tried it with zero shims, and saw 59 inch-lbs of rotational resistance.
Unfortunately, the thinnest shims in the kit are .010. That sucks.
Anyone know where I can find thinner shims for a crush sleeve eliminator kit?

I guess I'll just carefully tighten by hand until I have the correct resistance, and then work out the carrier bearing combo.
Does this sound like a reasonable course of action, or am I over-thinking it again?

 

[Turbo4whl]

You must be registered for see images attach

This your first pattern picture of the drive side, you can see the gears have very little engagement.

You must be registered for see images attach

This picture of the drive side shows a much better pattern. If you were to add the needed lash to the side bearings the pattern will move to the center. This also shows the pinion gear could be moved in just a little more. To make this happen the side gear shims need to be moved. Remember, side gear adjustment is second, not first. Side gear bearings and races are how you set the lash.

 

[ucs75]

Index - 004
Pinion Shim: .010
Carrier-Left Shim: .231
Carrier-Right Shim: .213
Backlash: .010 - .011
Pattern:

 

[ucs75]

Index - 005
Pinion Shim: .010
Carrier-Left Shim: .241
Carrier-Right Shim: .213

Failure: Too much shim - unable to insert - shims deformed (damaged pieces discarded)

 

[ucs75]

Index - 006
Pinion Shim: .010
Carrier-Left Shim: .233
Carrier-Right Shim: .213
Backlash: .007
Pattern:

 

[ucs75]

Sorry for being slow, but I'm unsure of next steps.

I would want to reduce pinion shim to increase backlash, but I'm already at the top of the gear teeth.

If I reduced pinion shim, would I be able to correct for that by adding shim to the carrier-left, and reducing from the carrier-right?

 

[ucs75]

@Turbo4whl

This picture of the drive side shows a much better pattern. If you were to add the needed lash to the side bearings the pattern will move to the center. This also shows the pinion gear could be moved in just a little more. To make this happen the side gear shims need to be moved. Remember, side gear adjustment is second, not first. Side gear bearings and races are how you set the lash.

Unfortunately, with that pattern, I only had .002 of backlash.

 

[ucs75]

Index - 007
Pinion Shim: .010
Carrier-Left Shim: .238
Carrier-Right Shim: .208
Backlash: .001
Pattern:

 

[Turbo4whl]

@Turbo4whl


Unfortunately, with that pattern, I only had .002 of backlash.

Right, your pinion depth is much better. From this point you remove shims from the ring gear side bearing and put them in the other side. That will increase your back lash.

If you a dealing with factory solid cast shims you will not be able to set this rear correctly.

 

[Turbo4whl]

Shim kit (click)

You need this or a kit like this for your axle.

 

[ucs75]

Thanks for the reply. That confirms what I'm setting up now.
I've shimmed the pinion to .038 (the earlier "good" pic was at .035), and am setting up .223 on both left and right to counter the backlash.