Mechanical fuel pump beef/info rant

DoubleDingo

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When I started, the company had 800 employees. When this conversation took place, it was over 4800 personnel worldwide. Then shortly after, the original owners all started retiring and "corporates" moved in. Then everything imploded and self-destructed.... I think they are about 900 people now. None of the original employees want to return, as everyone is a number now.
Sounds about right. Nobody cares anymore. I see it here in my profession as well.
 

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My thought on the alternator is it's probably the case threads. I'm not sure if those are assembled by hand or machine after rebuild but I've seen them to where they are stripped out.

About the not in town garage thing. When I worked for Goodyear we had a similar situation going with a company that had a fleet of Astro vans at the time. The deal was once a year the company let shops bid for their work. The shops would submit what we would charge them for an hourly rate on repairs. The district manager, instructed me to bid 1/2 of our normal hourly rate. We always won the account. Like in your story the deal was that these vans would sit until we were slow and we use them almost like filler work. Sometimes we'd get our lot 1/2 full of these vans waiting for repairs and sometimes those drivers would be very upset if their van was there for several weeks. One problem was we charged so little that we barely made any money on them at all. I was not not suppose to let me top mechanics work on these vans because their pay was to high. We were suppose to do each job as quickly as possible. So when we'd get a slow day I was suppose to let my master techs go home for the day, thereby shaving payroll, and let the tire guys do these vans. But many of them could not diagnose the problems accurately. Of course I was there so I'd bail them out.... It was a horrible situation for the shop and the company. Last time I went by that store there were several vans with that companies name on it in the parking lot so it looks like they are still doing it.....
The case is new, the internals are new etc all new, just who and where sourced are the electronics? WHo knows. It has an aggressive regulator and puts too much load on at startup.

Could still be case threads

You must be registered for see images attach



When I started, the company had 800 employees. When this conversation took place, it was over 4800 personnel worldwide. Then shortly after, the original owners all started retiring and "corporates" moved in. Then everything imploded and self-destructed.... I think they are about 900 people now. None of the original employees want to return, as everyone is a number now.
my old "number" was 223283
 

Big Chip

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The case is new, the internals are new etc all new, just who and where sourced are the electronics? WHo knows. It has an aggressive regulator and puts too much load on at startup.

Could still be case threads

You must be registered for see images attach




my old "number" was 223283
That's an inmate number.
 

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Oh it is? I was talking an employee number but it was pretty close to the same anyway, especially if you were in a worse financial situation than me. But for a big corporation that works for them(being an inmate) which they also hired a lot of people who came over from jail on work release so maybe there is a science there.
 

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And what do we do about it? That is up for discussion. What most don't think about is that we allow it. Our laws or regulations on "American" companies lets them get by with it. Many will say look how good the stock market is. That has no bearing on our lives. Those stocks are on these companies and the shareholders are the ones making money of our buying of the parts. We took ourselves down this road.
Want to change it we need to allow for taxing those "american by name only" companies as if they are foreign companies. Just because they have a USA mailing address for a corporate office shouldn't count. How many do they employ?
The company my wife works for is doing this same thing in the healthcare field. THey have shipped 85-90% of all jobs to the Philippines. Now look at the government there. My wife and her coworkers know they will be out of a job in the next few years or less as they are the last of the folks here working. They are now having their positions redefined by the first of the year. All their old tasks are now being done there. We are talking over 2000 jobs already lost.
Bottom line is to get the jobs to come back to the USA you have to make it a non advantage to moving it out of country. Then when we have global issues the USA is paralyzed with no parts for anything. That drives up our inflation as we see now. The boats are sitting in the ocean because of trade deals not being done, covid etc. No matter the cause if those companies were here producing we would not have shortages. Look at the chips in cars stopping all the car production to stop.
The USA has let its guard down and the companies benefit. Walmart parking lot is full.
IS anyone else old enough to remember the early 80's walmart ads on tv. Showing factory workers waving those little American flags? All our shelves are filled with American made products. People applauded that and Walmart grew bigger than Kmart and took down Sears. They took down small town American shops. Sure those big screen tv's are great at low costs. But Walmart then said USA items aren't as good and got away with it. IF WE CAN FIND GOOD AMERICAN PRODUCTS WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE THEM. What they were saying is we can find similar products for cheaper costs and we make more profit. Then they claim unions are at fault. Hmmm funny they can afford all that shipping cost on top of labor and still make bigger profits. That is what switched. And Toyota made those nicer interior and longer lasting cars called Corollas. Better everything over the KCARS built at the time. Paint falling off after a year etc.
Americans began to view their own products as lesser than.
SO what to do. Complain about the parts and how cheap which is the American way....capitalism make as much as you can in profit. OR figure out a solution. I don't think we should cap prices. I just think that the companies reap the rewards of sending away jobs, sending out quality workmanship and get the advantage of more profits. I will buy foreign made goods from quality companies over American NAMED goods made as you said cheaply in another company. And every American made part here isn't good either because companies go cheap on materials to make more profits. There has to be a balance and companies are not worried about quality. In fact if you can keep your car going longer they don't get you to buy new!
I am not one to promote taxes on us as a whole but companies that want to fly the American flag and name brands should not get the benefit of moving it all overseas and ship back home. Those companies are more foreign than American.
Just my two cents on this rant page.
 

eric 87

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My thought on the alternator is it's probably the case threads. I'm not sure if those are assembled by hand or machine after rebuild but I've seen them to where they are stripped out.

About the not in town garage thing. When I worked for Goodyear we had a similar situation going with a company that had a fleet of Astro vans at the time. The deal was once a year the company let shops bid for their work. The shops would submit what we would charge them for an hourly rate on repairs. The district manager, instructed me to bid 1/2 of our normal hourly rate. We always won the account. Like in your story the deal was that these vans would sit until we were slow and we use them almost like filler work. Sometimes we'd get our lot 1/2 full of these vans waiting for repairs and sometimes those drivers would be very upset if their van was there for several weeks. One problem was we charged so little that we barely made any money on them at all. I was not not suppose to let me top mechanics work on these vans because their pay was to high. We were suppose to do each job as quickly as possible. So when we'd get a slow day I was suppose to let my master techs go home for the day, thereby shaving payroll, and let the tire guys do these vans. But many of them could not diagnose the problems accurately. Of course I was there so I'd bail them out.... It was a horrible situation for the shop and the company. Last time I went by that store there were several vans with that companies name on it in the parking lot so it looks like they are still doing it.....
Hey so the other way of doing it in another sort of company in the bid process is to bid low like that BUT you make up for it by padding the bill with more hours and or parts that weren't needed to justify the higher rate. So you replace parts that are good. Now to be careful though because they can send a vehicle or item to a shop that has nothing wrong to see if you are cheating them. But depending on the service you provide in the business there are always a way to get it back in the long run.
 

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And what do we do about it? That is up for discussion. What most don't think about is that we allow it. Our laws or regulations on "American" companies lets them get by with it. Many will say look how good the stock market is. That has no bearing on our lives. Those stocks are on these companies and the shareholders are the ones making money of our buying of the parts. We took ourselves down this road.
Want to change it we need to allow for taxing those "american by name only" companies as if they are foreign companies. Just because they have a USA mailing address for a corporate office shouldn't count. How many do they employ?
The company my wife works for is doing this same thing in the healthcare field. THey have shipped 85-90% of all jobs to the Philippines. Now look at the government there. My wife and her coworkers know they will be out of a job in the next few years or less as they are the last of the folks here working. They are now having their positions redefined by the first of the year. All their old tasks are now being done there. We are talking over 2000 jobs already lost.
Bottom line is to get the jobs to come back to the USA you have to make it a non advantage to moving it out of country. Then when we have global issues the USA is paralyzed with no parts for anything. That drives up our inflation as we see now. The boats are sitting in the ocean because of trade deals not being done, covid etc. No matter the cause if those companies were here producing we would not have shortages. Look at the chips in cars stopping all the car production to stop.
The USA has let its guard down and the companies benefit. Walmart parking lot is full.
IS anyone else old enough to remember the early 80's walmart ads on tv. Showing factory workers waving those little American flags? All our shelves are filled with American made products. People applauded that and Walmart grew bigger than Kmart and took down Sears. They took down small town American shops. Sure those big screen tv's are great at low costs. But Walmart then said USA items aren't as good and got away with it. IF WE CAN FIND GOOD AMERICAN PRODUCTS WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE THEM. What they were saying is we can find similar products for cheaper costs and we make more profit. Then they claim unions are at fault. Hmmm funny they can afford all that shipping cost on top of labor and still make bigger profits. That is what switched. And Toyota made those nicer interior and longer lasting cars called Corollas. Better everything over the KCARS built at the time. Paint falling off after a year etc.
Americans began to view their own products as lesser than.
SO what to do. Complain about the parts and how cheap which is the American way....capitalism make as much as you can in profit. OR figure out a solution. I don't think we should cap prices. I just think that the companies reap the rewards of sending away jobs, sending out quality workmanship and get the advantage of more profits. I will buy foreign made goods from quality companies over American NAMED goods made as you said cheaply in another company. And every American made part here isn't good either because companies go cheap on materials to make more profits. There has to be a balance and companies are not worried about quality. In fact if you can keep your car going longer they don't get you to buy new!
I am not one to promote taxes on us as a whole but companies that want to fly the American flag and name brands should not get the benefit of moving it all overseas and ship back home. Those companies are more foreign than American.
Just my two cents on this rant page.
i think if you deliberetly fired people here and go elsewhere to do just that, your company should get directed tarrifs imposed directly on it that amount to equal or greater the value what they just cheated out by leaving. Has to be calculated on a expected rate, which happily say they can estimate that because they were about to flood the market with something cheaper and that means those increased sales will do wonders to help the rest of us here at home work around their treachery :)

come back to the US and we consider just leaving it the way it was before they left. Egregious enough of a company to have left to come back, reparations because frankly they knew exactly what they were doing and they did it all and they didnt care till it hurt the pockets and would you see that I could go for some new pockets myself etc etc
 

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Hey so the other way of doing it in another sort of company in the bid process is to bid low like that BUT you make up for it by padding the bill with more hours and or parts that weren't needed to justify the higher rate. So you replace parts that are good. Now to be careful though because they can send a vehicle or item to a shop that has nothing wrong to see if you are cheating them. But depending on the service you provide in the business there are always a way to get it back in the long run.
That's not the way I run shops. I will not change parts that are not needed, nor will I allow my guys to. When we called to get approval for work they'd labor check as well before authorization would be given, if we wanted to charge more labor for a job we needed to have a reason, and honestly their local office was pretty good working with us on that stuff, but if we did it on every job it would have been a no go. Plus to me the idea of changing parts that are not needed and bumping labor times up when there isn't extra labor involved is unethical and one of the reasons mechanics get a bad rap. I will not be part of that.
 

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That's not the way I run shops. I will not change parts that are not needed, nor will I allow my guys to. When we called to get approval for work they'd labor check as well before authorization would be given, if we wanted to charge more labor for a job we needed to have a reason, and honestly their local office was pretty good working with us on that stuff, but if we did it on every job it would have been a no go. Plus to me the idea of changing parts that are not needed and bumping labor times up when there isn't extra labor involved is unethical and one of the reasons mechanics get a bad rap. I will not be part of that.
I left my old job at the farm and barn for that reason. Was being told to write work orders for parts I know were not needed. every brake job needed calipers? Even 30k heavy braking new cars? not buying it.
 

eric 87

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That's not the way I run shops. I will not change parts that are not needed, nor will I allow my guys to. When we called to get approval for work they'd labor check as well before authorization would be given, if we wanted to charge more labor for a job we needed to have a reason, and honestly their local office was pretty good working with us on that stuff, but if we did it on every job it would have been a no go. Plus to me the idea of changing parts that are not needed and bumping labor times up when there isn't extra labor involved is unethical and one of the reasons mechanics get a bad rap. I will not be part of that.
I never worked in shops but did work in the medical supply field and folks do not know the half of it when it comes to OUR healthcare system. One sees enough of that sort of thing and then watch the news and you get disheartened as a mild way of putting it.
I say I never worked in a shop but I will say I worked for a guy that had a Semi/ car repair shop. We are talking small rural town sort of setting. Single moms, young girls that are struggling to get by on waitress pay and those sorts of jobs. Well if they needed an alternator and didn't have the money....well he took it in trade. Not every one of them was over 18 either or were just 18 and he was about 50. A piece of work. I was there a short time before I moved on. Always scamming someone. Took taxes out on me but never turned them in to the IRS. Luckily that period I didn't owe taxes but I didn't get a refund either. SO as much as there are good people there are some that will literally screw folks.
 

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I never worked in shops but did work in the medical supply field and folks do not know the half of it when it comes to OUR healthcare system. One sees enough of that sort of thing and then watch the news and you get disheartened as a mild way of putting it.
I say I never worked in a shop but I will say I worked for a guy that had a Semi/ car repair shop. We are talking small rural town sort of setting. Single moms, young girls that are struggling to get by on waitress pay and those sorts of jobs. Well if they needed an alternator and didn't have the money....well he took it in trade. Not every one of them was over 18 either or were just 18 and he was about 50. A piece of work. I was there a short time before I moved on. Always scamming someone. Took taxes out on me but never turned them in to the IRS. Luckily that period I didn't owe taxes but I didn't get a refund either. SO as much as there are good people there are some that will literally screw folks.
I know different industries are different, and maybe I should apologize for being so jumpy about that. In this area at least there are quite a few shops with the "lie, cheat and steal" from the customer reputation. I've worked very hard to make sure my name and the shop I work for are not part of that. For me I'd rather sink or go broke with a good honest reputation and be able to sleep at night, than to excel though dishonest business practices.

Well I'll say I've seen this area change a lot. It use to be very rural, but now Boeing and Microsoft are not that far away. Now it's not so rural. Where my home and farm is the immediate area has some hold outs like me so that still feels somewhat rural at least. At the shop I have to take money for repairs made and generally I can't do work on credit though, though I have done it for a few long time customers that truly were in a pinch, and not one of them has welched. With the farm yea I definitely do stuff in trade for the farm.

@AuroraGirl good for you for taking a stand. If there were more people willing to do that the automotive industry would have a different story to tell.

@eric 87 Just one of the down falls to auto repair industry has been flat rate pay and parts incentives. The shop I'm at now every single one of us including myself is on an hourly rate. But that's not true in 99% of shops. Most shops have their technicians on flat rate pay which means whatever that labor time in the guild says is what the tech gets paid + a bonus on parts sales. This really drives up quick shotty workmanship and sales of parts that are not needed. I could go on and on really. The automotive repair industry is about as broken as the healthcare industry you just see less of it on the news. Here's one last one for ya. Keep in mind this area currently has one of the highest costs of living. So in this area fast food places are hiring at $18 an hour. Automotive $18 - $20. Plus tech needs to provide his own tools, and should have gone though 2 years of trade school. So guess what no one decent gets into this business..... I'm sorry I could still go on, but I'll stop here and just say it's very frustrating to me to see what has happened in the last 25 years or so.
 

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I know different industries are different, and maybe I should apologize for being so jumpy about that. In this area at least there are quite a few shops with the "lie, cheat and steal" from the customer reputation. I've worked very hard to make sure my name and the shop I work for are not part of that. For me I'd rather sink or go broke with a good honest reputation and be able to sleep at night, than to excel though dishonest business practices.

Well I'll say I've seen this area change a lot. It use to be very rural, but now Boeing and Microsoft are not that far away. Now it's not so rural. Where my home and farm is the immediate area has some hold outs like me so that still feels somewhat rural at least. At the shop I have to take money for repairs made and generally I can't do work on credit though, though I have done it for a few long time customers that truly were in a pinch, and not one of them has welched. With the farm yea I definitely do stuff in trade for the farm.

@AuroraGirl good for you for taking a stand. If there were more people willing to do that the automotive industry would have a different story to tell.

@eric 87 Just one of the down falls to auto repair industry has been flat rate pay and parts incentives. The shop I'm at now every single one of us including myself is on an hourly rate. But that's not true in 99% of shops. Most shops have their technicians on flat rate pay which means whatever that labor time in the guild says is what the tech gets paid + a bonus on parts sales. This really drives up quick shotty workmanship and sales of parts that are not needed. I could go on and on really. The automotive repair industry is about as broken as the healthcare industry you just see less of it on the news. Here's one last one for ya. Keep in mind this area currently has one of the highest costs of living. So in this area fast food places are hiring at $18 an hour. Automotive $18 - $20. Plus tech needs to provide his own tools, and should have gone though 2 years of trade school. So guess what no one decent gets into this business..... I'm sorry I could still go on, but I'll stop here and just say it's very frustrating to me to see what has happened in the last 25 years or so.
Book time can be an absolute joke and there should seriously be a lot of transparency in what "book" the time is from. Because I was shown book time On my computer what each and every job would take and it would go into work orders and of course that is how it would calculate the labor cost, but it was almost never an accurate or realistic number.

Thankfully, the company didnt force things to live by that number, it was actually a "hey thats gonna take 2 hours not 1 hour 15, book it for 2.5 hours"(lets be real, frequently and often screwing people on estimated time and delays will not get you far) but it was never ever a charge more than its listing. That is a good thing, I think it was something that the company just used for the system and it was more than understanding how it didnt transfer to reality. Like, shocks take 15 minutes on some cars accordingto the system.

Mr. Computer Book Time, if it took 15 minutes that would be fantastic, but by time the car is pulled in and the appropiate "checks" of lights, tires, put a thing on the seat to keep it clean, get it lifted , the tech at that point ready to work on this vehicle, its been 16 minutes. By time the rusted as **** bolts are out, its 32, by time its in and out in the parking lot with keys in my hand, its been 49 minutes. Please tell me where 15 comes from! Lol

Book time, period, should have to follow at least a regional breakdown of labor because Wisconsin sure you can have a new car or a well kept car but the people who have those cars dont use service centers either at all or they are people who only use a dealer or have a "guy" for stuff. Car can be 2 years old now, and be absolutely crusted and seized on fasteners but the car otherwise not rusting. Metals are low quality **** now. It shows. And points of galvanic corrosion are multiplied by use of aluminum, magnesium, alloys of those, etc. They use coatings, sure, but something tells me coatings are definitely intended to last only as long as the first install by the assembly line and who cares after that.
Even so... its bad. Cars arent old or are well kept, then still end up looking like my 1999 after a winter or two. SCIENCE.

Anyway, got my rant about book time out. LOL
 

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I know different industries are different, and maybe I should apologize for being so jumpy about that. In this area at least there are quite a few shops with the "lie, cheat and steal" from the customer reputation. I've worked very hard to make sure my name and the shop I work for are not part of that. For me I'd rather sink or go broke with a good honest reputation and be able to sleep at night, than to excel though dishonest business practices.

Well I'll say I've seen this area change a lot. It use to be very rural, but now Boeing and Microsoft are not that far away. Now it's not so rural. Where my home and farm is the immediate area has some hold outs like me so that still feels somewhat rural at least. At the shop I have to take money for repairs made and generally I can't do work on credit though, though I have done it for a few long time customers that truly were in a pinch, and not one of them has welched. With the farm yea I definitely do stuff in trade for the farm.

@AuroraGirl good for you for taking a stand. If there were more people willing to do that the automotive industry would have a different story to tell.

@eric 87 Just one of the down falls to auto repair industry has been flat rate pay and parts incentives. The shop I'm at now every single one of us including myself is on an hourly rate. But that's not true in 99% of shops. Most shops have their technicians on flat rate pay which means whatever that labor time in the guild says is what the tech gets paid + a bonus on parts sales. This really drives up quick shotty workmanship and sales of parts that are not needed. I could go on and on really. The automotive repair industry is about as broken as the healthcare industry you just see less of it on the news. Here's one last one for ya. Keep in mind this area currently has one of the highest costs of living. So in this area fast food places are hiring at $18 an hour. Automotive $18 - $20. Plus tech needs to provide his own tools, and should have gone though 2 years of trade school. So guess what no one decent gets into this business..... I'm sorry I could still go on, but I'll stop here and just say it's very frustrating to me to see what has happened in the last 25 years or so.
I think a lot of the problem is the squeeze by automakers such as general motors on dealers, who then those dealers were generally the less moral or caring of things as they should be, who when they saw money squeezed, squeezed the largest business expenditure all businesses have.

Labor

And then you had other manufactures, chains, etc able to get away with a lot "less for more" type wages or benefits where they provide less, you do more, a lot of indentured servitude for fresh techs where the business will buy the tools from an expensive truck company, maybe actually give a deal, or not, to the tech, but then locks them into paying for possibly way too much or for too long and possibly without letting them pay early so they have to stay or be out a lot of things needed like tools of course. Then the seemingly anti-competition competition where all the places in town pay 12-15 an hour and pretend they are generous. Around here, the only places to step out of dog **** for repair is your own venture(Could be costly, could be amazing, thats not a risk everyone can literally take and not realistic solution), a small place where its only a couple people but high quality work, BODY work, or larger types of repair such as medium duty vehicles or diesel shops or the similar.
 

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WOW @AuroraGirl I completely agree with your thoughts. I also want to say that adding to book time for completely legitimate reason is fine and very much needed at times, and some book times maybe listed incorrectly. Of course I understand that the book is suppose to be an estimate of time or a guide. Here is what I'll add to what you have already said. There are to my knowledge two companies that compile "book times" Mitchell and Alldata, (there maybe others I'm unaware of but those are the major ones anyway), they get those times from the automakers. Are those times correct all the time and under all conditions of course not. What I don't like is companies that run a labor matrix. For example every 1.0 hours job might be charged to the customer at 1.4 hours or more, Now that means a 3 hour job suddenly gets billed for 4.2 hours. That's a way for the shop to offer a lower labor rate, but make up for it by charging more time on every job, which is deceptive and not ethical IMO. Tech would still get the book listed amount of pay BTY. Charging a realistic amount of time for job, like in your example the shocks, charging say .9 or even an hour for that job I view as just fine, as long as that is realistic for that car. What I don't like is an automatic screw the customer and the tech system.
 

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