Ethanol Free Or Premium Or Either

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Scott91370

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Why would you not run Premium?
Low compression engine that doesn't have a ton of timing doesn't need it and could even not burn all the fuel before the exhaust stroke wasting $$.
Higher compression, turbo/supercharged would be way more happy with it.
 

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If adding fresh gas to old old gas makes more old gas, then I guess we all need to just dump out our tanks on the ground and go get fresh every time we need to use our vehicles. I'll still use my method.
 

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Not all engines are created equal. I run premium in our 99 vortec 350 because
its not stock and pretty much requires it to run good, Without premium its not as happy and I lose about 3mpg. I'm averaging 17 now.
 

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^No
If adding fresh gas to old old gas makes more old gas, then I guess we all need to just dump out our tanks on the ground and go get fresh every time we need to use our vehicles. I'll still use my method.
You’re taking this discussion personally and taking it the wrong way. IMO
 

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OK, so cellulosic energy, (3 different links)...

Biofuels

Cellulosic biofuel contributions to a sustainable energy future: Choices and outcomes

US Biofuels



On my next post, if you guys are still interested, I'll post the fuel additive recipe, so your GASOLINE will last 5 years, in your generator, without going bad... or longer...

...Unless this is against the rules... and your fuel must be allowed to go bad... I do not want to get into trouble for teaching anyone how to make thier gasoline last longer than the DOE wants your fuel to last...

Let me know how to proceed, so I don't make enemies or violate forum rules, for over thinking planned obsolescence idiocy... and accidentally let out information which would actually save you money and protect our national security.

Edited: I cut my doctoral thesis on Biomass fuel production out of this thread... if there's anyone who wants the rest of the story and I'm not going to get into trouble, email me directly for further details.
Huh?
 

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Recipe:

128oz Xylene
0.30 oz Mineral Spirits
0.30 oz upper cylinder lube, Marvel Mystery Oil, ATF, etc.

Split into 16 oz batches or mix up to 50/50 ratio.

This mixture should be mixed with 92-93 oct
With this value the outcome should be around 106-110 oct.

Better explained:

Formula for resulting octane:
(Octane of Xylene) x (Gallons of Xylene) + (Octane of Fuel) x (Gallons of Fuel)

Take and divide by total gallons of fuel = Octane

(117 x 5) + 93 x 12) = 1701
(1701 / 17 Gallons) = 100 Octane

Max 30% Xylene to fuel.

Using 2 Gallons of Xylene:

1) 2 Gallons of Xylene - 30%

2) 4.6 Gallons of 93 Octane - 70%

3) 2 oz Marvel Mystery Oil - Lubricant


Sunoco Ratings
SUNOCO "Standard"
Color...Purple
Research Octane...115
Motor Octane...107
R+M/2 ...111
Specific Gravity...0.725
Reid Vapor Pressure... 8#

Distallation temp, degrees F
Initial...90
10%...160
50%...220
Final...360


SUNOCO "GT Unleaded"
Color...Natural
Research Octane...105
Motor Octane...95
R+M/2 ...100
Specific Gravity...0.760
Reid Vapor Pressure... 8#

Distallation temp, degrees F
Initial...90
10%...150
50%...210
Final...230


SUNOCO "Supreme"
Color...Blue
Research Octane...116
Motor Octane...109
R+M/2 ...112
Specific Gravity...0.715
Reid Vapor Pressure... 8#

Distallation temp, degrees F
Initial...90
10%...155
50%...215
Final...260


SUNOCO "Maximal"
Color...Red
Research Octane...118
Motor Octane...115
R+M/2 ...117
Specific Gravity...0.700
Reid Vapor Pressure... 6#

Distallation temp, degrees F
Initial...100
10%...150
50%...220
Final...240


Richard Lassiter's "How to Mix Your Own Brew"

FORMULA 1
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.

FORMULA 3
Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2...118
Cost...$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toulene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

FORMULA 4
Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combines with water.

FORMULA 5
Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...Not Recommended
30%...Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

MAKE YOUR OWN OCTANE BOOST

How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)

This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaner".

http://www.pacificp.com/forum/posting.phpeaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

Disclaimer: this intellectual property is offered to GN/TType owners at no charge. Use it at your own risk. The GN/TType Organization is is not responsible for any damage or problems associated with use of this information. This information is for use by GN/TType owners on their own personal vehicles and may not be used for profit.


Copyright ® 1999,2000 by Eliot Lim This paper may be freely distributed, provided it is distributed in its entirety
Last revised: February 8, 2000

*** The estimated cost per gallon will naturally be incorrect due to the variation in fuel costs, since this report was written.

My 355HO has 10.6:1 compression, so my engine cannot run on 91 octane gasoline. (Ethanol free fuel only). We have a special pump here, in the mid-west, for high test without corn added, but most places do not.

In order to get enough octane for my engine to run correct, I started to do a lot of research. High compression is much more efficient and highly desirable, in my opinion. Just have to account for detonation and adjust octane and additives for the extra compression.

It's not too hard to make your own fuel additive.
Now you have the knowledge to do it yourself.


Hope this helps somebody out.
 
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Had a feeling some MMO was in the formula. I thought acetone would be another component, but I see it can be mixed with water, not desirable in fuel. Enter xylene
 

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So... the stock Chevy TBI 350 in my truck would run best on regular fuel with ethanol? Or I should just stick to premium? Ethanol free is a waste(or beneficial)to put in my truck?
Everyone has different reasons for all 3 of these outcomes. I'm definitely not the type of guy to make his own fuel additives...I guess I will be flipping a coin.
 

DoubleDingo

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Premium. If real is available, go with that. It's ran on premium so premium isn't harming anything
 

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That sounds good. Thanks Double Dingo!
 

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So... the stock Chevy TBI 350 in my truck would run best on regular fuel with ethanol? Or I should just stick to premium? Ethanol free is a waste(or beneficial)to put in my truck?
Everyone has different reasons for all 3 of these outcomes. I'm definitely not the type of guy to make his own fuel additives...I guess I will be flipping a coin.
Unless you have a high compression performance engine, premium is purely a waste of money. It is not "premium" in any way, that is clever marketing. The higher octane just makes it less susceptible to pre-ignition/knock, on a stock engine there is literally no advantage it just costs a whole lot more. Regular 87 is perfectly fine.

If you drive the truck somewhat regularly the cheap gas with ethanol in it will be fine. If you plan on letting the truck sit for long periods of time (like if the fuel in the tank may become a few months old before it is burned) it would be beneficial to get the ethanol free gas, simply because it does not varnish as quickly. Technically you'd get a smidge better gas mileage with ethanol free, but honestly not enough to even notice, certainly not enough to justify the price difference. Maybe if you garage it for the winter or something it wouldn't be a bad idea to fill up with ethanol free before you park it, but while you're driving around just use the normal e10 blend sold at most gas stations.
 
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Andrew Koetz

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Ethanol gas in small engines; i.e. snowblower, lawnmower, etc will varnish if not run dry out of the carb; also ethanol does destroy seals in carbs over time if the blend with gas is too much in the ratio of gas-ethanol. The same applies to cars & trucks as well. For several years up here in MN. AMMOCO (before it became BP) had a terrible mix of gas-ethanol. I know several people who stayed away from Ammoco because of that reason.
 

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Unfortunately, Ethanol is not good for your TBI or carbureted engines. E-15, 55, 85 Corn clogs up everything and causes corrosion to your, tank, injectors, carburetor bowl and seals.

Here:
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014...derstanding-ethanol-can-protect-classic-ride/

Q: Can I just increase the size of the jets in my carburetor and use E85?
A: The simple answer is that this probably will not work. E85 has roughly 25- to 30-percent less heat per pound of fuel so you need to increase the size of the jetting by roughly that much. So if the stock jetting was 75, it would require as large as 100 to 105 jets. This becomes an issue because the rest of the carburetor is not appropriately sized to meter that much fuel. It’s better to invest in an E85-designed carburetor. There are several companies that offer E85-specific model carburetors.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-t...t-e85-and-ethanol-16-things-you-need-to-know/

Phase separation is when the water content in the fuel tank builds up to a level where separation of the ethanol and gasoline takes place. Reports have suggested that a fuel tank content of just 0.35% of water will lead to phase separation.

What you are left with is a layer of water on the bottom of the tank Above it will be the layer of ethanol and above that will be the remainder of the unleaded gasoline. This fuel is deemed useless and corrosive. If used will cause havoc in fuel injection systems. Clogged and especial sticky fuel injectors are but some of the related problems.

https://www.injectorrx.com/fuel-inj...ctor-symptoms/ethanol-fuel-injector-problems/

https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain

Two months of Ethanol in your tank and your carb or TBI Injector bowls look like this:

https://ridermagazine.com/2020/03/26/carburetors-and-ethanol/
You must be registered for see images attach



It also has to do with holding Class A Shares of Power Generation Plants. Take Florida, for instance. If the power authority cannot retain 13% profit, they get to raise everybody's rates, under State Laws. So if the "P-word" shuts down domestic oil production and the power margins go haywire, then the class A share holders get profit, despite the consumer getting screwed at the pump and the power pole. You can see how having big money in off shore drilling can also make you a fortune, if you get to vote where the power company buys it's oil and at what price. Now drive demand with 250,000 new electric vehicles and all that money comes home to Daddy. Guaranteed 13% profits through Natsec power regulations. "I think everybody should be forced to drive an electric car by tomorrow!" Same thing as saying: "I win again, and again and again..."

This is amplified by massive corporations farming corn and other crops in the mid west.

There's big money in buying off shore fuel and fuel futures. You and I are not getting a nickel of it, either. We get corn fuel though... wreck your car faster, if your not careful.

Back then, when corn subsidies first started and we were all being scared to death about PEAK OIL, ...if I was a farmer, it would have made me money, so why not? We sent millions of bushels around the world to feed foreign countries, every year, why not add it to fuel, it sounded great.

Except PEAK OIL was not even close. It was B/S.
Once a Subsidy starts, it's a lot tougher to stop it... so the market chose to add corn to gas, in order to offset the corn crops. It did nothing for domestic automobile engines, in my opinion, except ruin them and increase maintenance.

The Utah play, (where sand shale fracking was invented), has yet to break ground. We are hearing the fracking plays are about to go broke or run dry, in the news. How can this be, when the largest fields are not yet drilled?


Iso-butanol is derived from corn stalk, wood chips, Tiger Grass, Sugar Cain Stalk and/or certain types of green algae. Or all of the above.

If this takes off, your farm could grow any number of plants or on your arid land, or farm algae in shallow pools. It works growing indoors too, under the right process.

Here is some interesting reading:
BP/DuPont Iso-Butanol

Here's the link for the Kansas Feed Stock company who started this using harvested corn stalks:
Nesikla Energy

There's hours of digging and links to click, just from those 2 links...

I wrote a pro-active forestry remediation project, using 25 Semi-tractor trailer mounted 30" drum digesters, to harvest green slash.

My plan was to feed the Iso-butanol rector and dead beetle kill chips to feed a pellet stove fuel project.
Lot's of trucks, lots of fuel. Open box haulers, with canvas toppers. Big rigs to haul the digesters.

It's 2016:
We got dead tress everywhere, so my thinking was; let's get the poor folks and the working man, some affordable heat, or at least back up heat, (incase of outages or shortages or war), and save money for hot rods and restoring old trucks, or food. (This was years ago... so bear with me, I was ahead of my time).

You stop at the fuel station, fill up your tank, grab a few hundred pounds of wood pellets and fill up the stoves the kids at 4-H learned to weld up, at welding school.

We need about 100,000 more welders, on a continuous annual basis, to build 100's of new ships, thousands of restored highways, busted up bridges, retrofit power plants and how many new US Factories... so hopefully welding up a few hundred thousand new pellet stoves could help out...

God gave us beetle kill, let's heat some homes.

My goal was to pro-actively target the areas where science based forecasting of potential burn zones, could be mapped and cleaned of flammables, before they caused $17 BilUS in annual forest fires. Clean up the slash piles as soon as they get cleared and truck the stuff to KS to the Bio-fuels labs for Iso-butanol manufacturing.

If we can subsidize electric cars, wind farms that screw up the grid and solar panels that fail, why not truck weed for fuel additives and bag some pellets?

The project was to feed the fuel additive, which did not hurt your carburetor's or seals: Iso-butanol, with all the trees, saw grass, tiger grass and corn stalks we could get.

(Good reads on alternate crop rotation for expected dry years or soil recovery anybody?)

Contemplated driving wood chips to Kansas and truck home silage for finishing cattle in the North West.

The 2020 floods caused so many bushels of stockpiled corn to get flooded, it seemed it would have been better if we had a plan to use it, rather than let it rot, when the Missouri Breaks and the Mississippi washed out...
Lots of wasted corn... this would be less likely to happen and stabilize prices, to some degree, in case transport or war or market crash screwed up the cattle yard concept. 2%-5% of local cattle, could be fed back home, (wherever home is), and the bark shreds and the weeds you farm could added to the Iso-butanol cooker on the round trip. We could use a subsidy for this trip, in my opinion...

This way, if the feed yard broke out with the Bovine Disease, at least some of the annual ranch feeder stock would be healthy, back home and not all grouped up on the same huge parking lot. Shift the market a bit for better preparedness and faster reaction?
Nah...

You grow Tiger Grass in Alabama or Florida?
How about corn stalks in North Dakota?
Saw Grass in Mississippi?
Same trip, different reasons, different loads going back.

Some folks want petroleum to go away, is the problem. Because they are guaranteed to make more money owning AAA power grid stocks, not because it will save you money or keep the world from being polluted. I have installed a scrubber at a recycling furnace. It's a huge catalytic converter. Same technology.

E-55 or E-85 would NOT be replaced or restricted. They work for newer multi-fuel vehicle applications and assist with the base stock, to sustainable develop Iso-butanol. Your Ethanol grow subsidies are not at steak with this program, just your hot rod's engine.

At no time have I suggested ethanol / corn subsidies should be removed or restricted... not the focus of my story...

Everything already at the pump remains, PLUS the NEW Blue Handle:
It would be called PREMIUM, (according to the DOE).

It was the marine manufacturer's who pushed for the Iso-butanol legislation and got it signed in late 2016-early 2017.

National Marine Manufacturer's Association LINK:
https://www.nmma.org/press/article/22033

There are people who would stalk and dox me for even mentioning this technology to you guys.

Hopefully, there's a few old timer's here who ran a cracker or two and can back me up with much more knowledge... (Cracker's lift gasoline vapors... they do not smoke them.)


Anyways...
Parts may never be more affordable than they are right now. Price of Nat Gas with the world in turmoil is probably going to follow the price of oil, as of yesterday and likely hit $100 real soon.

Planned obsolescence starts at the fuel pump, with Ethanol, eating your truck's fuel system. Sub standard parts may very well do the rest.

Unless your vehicle was engineered for Ethanol, it cannot withstand the residual and water, over time.

Don't take my word for any of it.
Please... read the links at the start of this post.

If your pop makes gas station pumps, or your brother installs giant underground fuel tanks, or your friend owns 600-700 filling stations, this is a major issue for our vehicles and hot rodding's future. These guys want all gas engines banned for ever. Oil executives and the market locked up.

Pro active solutions are being kicked to the curb.

Gas, Beef, Hot Rods, navigable water ways for boating and crop irrigation, they can all go away very fast, if we don't take care of what's allowed to happen.

If you can afford to use High Test, I strongly suggest you do so, for as long as is possible. It may not be long, before the carbon dioxide you exhale is taxed.

**** Your mileage and opinions, may vary.****

Hopefully for the better, with less engine wear?
Those recipe's posted above, might be the only way to keep up with the mess at the pump... 200 new users can add this to the list of why the truck will not start.

Xylene handles the H20, as previously stated... once the corn splits into 3 separate layers, the fuel is acidic, caustic. It don't take long.

What do I know?
May be the worst salesman in the USA.
 
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So... the stock Chevy TBI 350 in my truck would run best on regular fuel with ethanol? Or I should just stick to premium? Ethanol free is a waste(or beneficial)to put in my truck?
Everyone has different reasons for all 3 of these outcomes. I'm definitely not the type of guy to make his own fuel additives...I guess I will be flipping a coin.
What @RecklessWOT said is exactly how I’d describe it, if I haven’t previously in this thread.
Premium (higher octane) offers no measurable advantage in performance in your engine. And still being E10, isn’t advantageous for the reasons that pure gas is.
While pure gas “may” help save the old or crusty or delicate rubber hoses and gaskets in your fuel system, I believe a failure of these components will be largely due to age and not some E10. Heck, do you know what the truck was run on for the last 10-15 years? Probably not.
I’d only spring for pure gas if it was infrequently used and a tank of gas is lasting you for months.
However if a tank is lasting for months then the extra cost is very minimal. As is the extra cost of a fuel stabilizer.

I wholeheartedly believe the best thing you can doo is to try to only burn relatively fresh fuel. Again, if you only drive around the block every other Sunday afternoon then you’re better off just putting 5 gal of fresh gas in every month than trying to make gas last a long time, OR this is a good reason to use pure gas.
Even better (not for you if you have factory emissions still) is AV gas for longevity. That stuff is stable for about 2 years.

But bottom line is, if your truck is tuned right and running right and used regularly, run the cheapest gas that doesn’t cause it to ping or diesel.
 

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