Am I pumping and cranking too much to start

[FireTruck1984]

I would say you have a bit too much rubber hose in between the pump and filter. The longer the fuel has to travel the longer it can take for fuel to get to the bowl.

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I see the problem.. if you look closer at your exhaust manifold, you have Gremlins !

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[CoggedBelt75]

May be an illusion, but it looks like the wire is resting on the manifold. #3 boots not looking good either. Sure is a lot of porcelain showing on the plug. Unrelated to loss of fuel problem, but definitely future problems are coming.

 

[Frankenchevy]

I find it difficult to believe that all the fuel is evaporating from the bowl in 3 winter days. While everyone’s suggestions are worth doing, the one that sticks out most to me is choke adjustment.

I remember doing it to my edelbrock back when. First, I sure that you have a good 12v source to the choke and a good ground from the choke. Then fully depress the throttle to “set the choke”. With your air cleaner removed the choke plate should be nearly shut. Loosen the three Phillips screws and you’ll find that you can rotate that black puck on the passenger side—note that this is where you are checking for voltage and ground I mentioned earlier. Rotate the black puck until the choke plate begins to open, then back to fully closed, then back open just a touch and lock it in with the three screws.

All of that needs to be done first thing in the morning on a cold engine. There are probably better instructions for this on YouTube, this is only what I remember doing several years ago.

If this doesn’t work, it may be worthwhile to check float adjustment. Should be 3/4” iirc

 

[Turbo4whl]

I have a edelbrock performer intake and a 1604(1406?) edelbrock carb. The fuel pump is mechanical, likely stock or replaced once in life of truck. Fuel lines are clean and replaced. Fuel tank is good. Fuel filter came with carb.

I notice that if the truck sits for a day or more, typically there is no fuel in the filter or carb, which means pumping the gas to get gas in accelerator pump would be pointless, right? Im guessing it slowly evaporates from the bowl.

In this weather, about 30 degrees, and not starting it for 3 days, I would have to pump it at least 30 times in total to get started. I wised up and realized the filter was empty and started cranking the engine a bit to fill that bad boy up first, then pump the gas which brings that down quite a bit.

My question, is the fuel filter pointing downward toward carb causing gas to go into carb then evaporate versus if It went upward, it might stay in filter for a little bit, allowing the truck to have some gas in it so it doesnt need to crank nearly as long? Or maybe weak fuel pumps? Carb? Ive never had a truly good-working carb on a vehicle before, just stock quadrajet, the old 2 barrel on this truck, and a 2 barrel on my old LTD.

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I'll try one more time to answer your questions. Some theory and facts: First you have already identified the problem. There is no fuel in the carb. The original carbs on this engine, either the Rochester 2 barrel or quadrajet would have a small fuel filter in the inlet of the carb. This filter would have a check valve, (for anti-siphon).

You also said the fuel pump is old. It also has a check valve. Modern gasoline is not friendly too the rubber parts in old fuel systems. The fuel pump must still work even if the check valve is leaking a little. But when you shut off the running engine and it sits a couple days the small leak in the check valve allows the fuel to siphon back to the tank.

Have you checked if the choke is nearly closed ? Does the accelerator pump spray fuel into the manifold when you pump ? ......

I had the same issue that my edelbrock ran dry after sitting more than 1 day. I had to crank for about 5 sec to get enough fuel from the fuel pump into the carb. No more starting issues with my qjet.

Same problem with his Edelbrock. But replaced with a guadrajet fixed.....???

That Q-jet had a filter with a check valve.

Just google fuel check valve, you can get it at amazon, summit, jegs, autozone.
You install it in your fuel line and it allows fuel only to flow in one direction.

My truck never needs more then 1 pump to start no matter the condition.

I did not see a picture but I bet he has a newer fuel pump. More compatible with the crap fuel we have now.

.... Also, maybe a wearing out fuel pump that lets too much fuel flow back the line or doesnt pump as efficiently as new? Im not 100% on that theory, but curious if anyone had that and could attest to any. The fuel pump is likely original to what is most likely a 305 from a 80s gm car. .......

I did not want to tell you to replace that old fuel pump because it still works. But with no second check valve and a most likely very tired check valve in the fuel pump, the fuel siphons down.

Summery: You identified the problem. You listed the possible cause, (fuel pump) and I just suggested an easy fix. Add the anti-siphon check valve.


@FireTruck1984 The exhaust manifold on the other side has no gremlins. One is not like the other.

@CoggedBelt75 I see a lot of things that could be dressed up a little. Driver's side, invisible front bolt on the intake manifold caught my eye.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I'll try one more time to answer your questions. Some theory and facts: First you have already identified the problem. There is no fuel in the carb. The original carbs on this engine, either the Rochester 2 barrel or quadrajet would have a small fuel filter in the inlet of the carb. This filter would have a check valve, (for anti-siphon).

You also said the fuel pump is old. It also has a check valve. Modern gasoline is not friendly too the rubber parts in old fuel systems. The fuel pump must still work even if the check valve is leaking a little. But when you shut off the running engine and it sits a couple days the small leak in the check valve allows the fuel to siphon back to the tank.



Same problem with his Edelbrock. But replaced with a guadrajet fixed.....???

That Q-jet had a filter with a check valve.





I did not see a picture but I bet he has a newer fuel pump. More compatible with the crap fuel we have now.



I did not want to tell you to replace that old fuel pump because it still works. But with no second check valve and a most likely very tired check valve in the fuel pump, the fuel siphons down.

Summery: You identified the problem. You listed the possible cause, (fuel pump) and I just suggested an easy fix. Add the anti-siphon check valve.


@FireTruck1984 The exhaust manifold on the other side has no gremlins. One is not like the other.

@CoggedBelt75 I see a lot of things that could be dressed up a little. Driver's side, invisible front bolt on the intake manifold caught my eye.

Haha, thank you thats a lot of helpful information. I was actually going to go ahead and throw a fuel pump AND a check valve in my amazon cart. The fuel pump being worn, especially with old gas is a very real and likely scenario. This truck sat a LOT for the last 15 years. Before that, no sitting. The gas my grandpa used was 87 with 10%. Currently I only use 100% gas because I use fuel cans that I also put in my lawn mowers, skidsteer, and other equipment that potentially sits. so i dont want ethanol gumming it up. But up until this new carb and manifold, the gas was ethanol and it SAT. I mean SAT for at least 8 years before I got it running with the old carb. With a good half tank of that crap.

Also, im very aware of the orphan status of this engine and its many flaws. It came out of a car, im told. The 2 barrel it had did not match the factory 2 barrel. Also, its the 3rd engine of the car. The 2nd engine was a 406 race car engine that ran on race gas. Kinda wish that was still in there. Alas, here I am.

The missing/invisible bolt was... uh... it kinda snapped in half with no effort while threading in. Had no resistance, and I was ratcheting in with a 1/4. It just twisted right off. Because it didnt leak after I let it set(I was not about to take it off while RTV was setting) so I just kept going. Although, now that im more comfortable using drills and taps, etc. I might go in and drill it out, get a new bolt, and try it with a new one. If it gets resistence I might look into retapping the hole. Possibly fix the current threads with the same size tap? If thats an issue.
Also, on the other side of the engine there is a bolt as well thats about half way in that I did not finish installing simply because it got REALLY hard to turn half way in while being finger threading that far in. I couldnt identify a cause when i pulled it out, the threads looked good. So I just stuck it in there to not lose it.

The engine got a tune up 2 years ago in summer, with very little hours. The plugs are incorrect, the AC Delco number matched. However, they are "colder" than the OE plugs. Im not sure if it was a big deal but I didnt have money and one bank seemingly burned way more oil than the other. And my grandpa insisted I put them in. The wires were sourced from 3 engines. 2 SBC and a spark plug set from a 1990 oldsmobile 88. Because they were there and not bad. The previous wires were shot, well shot. Its getting a tune up with proper plugs and wires this summer. And they will be routed properly. The one isnt laying on a manifold, where the photo is blocked by the heater hoses the two wires cross paths. I have actually already moved them to not be close to the exhaust, but I can see how it appeared that way. The cap aint pretty either.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Yes.
Factory fuel filters have an anti back flow diaphragm. I do not believe the fuel is evaporating, but rather back flowing towards the tank.

If it was me, I would change the gas cap first.

I wager yours is OE?

 

[AuroraGirl]

Why should I replace the gas cap? And atm I will keep it because its vented. Unless I can buy a new vented gas cap. My tank doesnt have a vent, its a blocked tube.

 

[Rusty Nail]

If it doesn't have a vent.....that sounds bad.

Doesn't that mean is holds vacuum?
Ever hear the tank creak OR does the gas cap make any sound when removing it?

It doesn't matter. ATM I can't help you. Good luck though!

 

[AuroraGirl]

If it doesn't have a vent.....that sounds bad.

Doesn't that mean is holds vacuum?
Ever hear the tank creak OR does the gas cap make any sound when removing it?

It doesn't matter. ATM I can't help you. Good luck though!

You misread my post. I dont want to change my gas cap because my gas cap is vented. The tank vent, meant to go to Evap, is plugged since there is no evap canister.

 

[Rusty Nail]

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That's a good stopping point, I will like to give somebody else a chance. The hard part is over

Someone

Anybody...

Bueller?

 

[Rusty Nail]

A vented gas cap only allows for expansion of vapor.
Since you have cleverly plugged the evap line, the idea is your gas tank now holds vacuum and thus, sucks the line dry given the opportunity. Bet that tank hisses like a snake at the pump!

Eager to entertain other's ideas.

 

[AuroraGirl]

It does not go on the road, but from a thread I had on the subject I was under the impression it allows expansion and contraction. I may be incorrect. Although, it was plugged before I got ownership many years ago. I think I will do the fixes with the check valve and fuel pump first anyway, since a check valve cant hurt and a new fuel pump cant hurt. If I still have issue I will tackle the tank. However, what am I supposed to vent it to?

 

[Rusty Nail]

The atmosphere?

 

[AuroraGirl]

Id rather not just stick a hose with a direct passage to my gas tank somewhere under my rusty box or cab, or have gasoline vent upward toward my cab, again with a direct opening. Unless you have a location that works well for you?

 

[Rusty Nail]

I have a similar situation at home and will gladly share my devise.

All you need is a universal crankcase breather.

My solution is to hook the rubber hose back to the OE hard line from the tank up the frame.
A correct sized breather will very simply install onto the underhood end of the same line.
VOILA! Run it in reverse.

I could snap a photo of the SS if I remember, good enough for my drag racing car...prolly work alright in your truck..

Cheap. At the parts store on the shelf.

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This is the fix.