4WD Alignment Question

[trukman1]

I've heard live axles can be aligned by shimming. Is this very expensive and is it really necessary? I've had quite a few 4x4's and never once had them aligned but with the price of tires nowadays thought it might be something to consider.

 

[4WDKC]

I've heard live axles can be aligned by shimming. Is this very expensive and is it really necessary? I've had quite a few 4x4's and never once had them aligned but with the price of tires nowadays thought it might be something to consider.

depends on the setup and what is needed to be corrected. It can be very expensive because the labor cost involved in disassembling stuff to get where the shims are needed to be installed. The spindle shims require the front axle be disassembled all the way down to the brake backing plate to install the spindle shim. The castor Cam requires the ball joints to be removed to install new cams if the older ones cannot provide enough adjustment.

 

[yevgenievich]

If all in good shape, usually toe is the only thing that needs adjusting and is easy to do. From there depends on what is out of spec as mentioned above.

 

[4WDKC]

If all in good shape, usually toe is the only thing that needs adjusting and is easy to do. From there depends on what is out of spec as mentioned above.

Just because it has the specs GM said were ok at that time doesnt mean it cant be better. Enough Positive Camber will help wear out the outer edges of the tires and make the truck drive weird just like to much negative camber will also.

 

[Craig 85]

I've always had mine done, but I've always installed lift kits on all my 4WD squares.

 

[yevgenievich]

We must have different reference for alignment specs. Mine were initial off due to failing ball joints and wheel bearings. After those issues sorted, toe was the only thing that needed to be changed.

Just because it has the specs GM said were ok at that time doesnt mean it cant be better. Enough Positive Camber will help wear out the outer edges of the tires and make the truck drive weird just like to much negative camber will also.

 

[4WDKC]

We must have different reference for alignment specs. Mine were initial off due to failing ball joints and wheel bearings. After those issues sorted, toe was the only thing that needed to be changed.

The alignment spec for older cars are based on what they were new, so our trucks have had the same specs since 73. Suspension technology and understand the geometry of the suspension has come along way since 73.

Borrowed this from CK5, if you follow through the specs on this it says 1.50 degree of camber +-1 degree, this means tolerable specs range depending on how you want to interpret it +2.5 to +.5 camber. It doesnt sound like alot but on my vette per globalwest alignment specs (I have their control arms) -.5 camber is what you want for daily/spirited driving race is -1.5 and will wear tires considerably more than-.5. Apply what we know know about camber and that tells us the truck should be close to 0 for max tire wear improved handling (considering). Ever notice the wear pattern on used large tires from these older trucks?

Model Year Left Caster Right Caster Camber Total Toe
Chevrolet/GMC
S-Series Pickup, Blazer ZR2 00-03 2.80° ± 1.00° 3.30° ± 1.00° 0.00° ± 1.00° 0.05" ± 0.10"
S-Series Pickup, Blazer ZR2 95-99 3.00° ± 0.50° 3.00° ± 0.50° 0.00° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.05"
Silverado/Sierra 1500–Except Crew Cab & SS 01-04 3.50° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
Silverado/Sierra 1500 99-02 4.25° ± 1.00° 4.75° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 07-08 3.40° ± 1.00° 3.20° ± 1.00° 0.10° ± 0.60° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 05-06 3.60° ± 1.00° 4.30° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 88-98 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
K2500 HD 05-08 4.25° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K10, K20, K30 Pickup 77-87 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
K10, K20 Pickup 63-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"
Suburban/Tahoe 00-06 3.50° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
Suburban 1500, 2500 92-99 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
Tahoe, Yukon 1500 92-99 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
Suburban 10, 20 77-91 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
Suburban 10, 20 63-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"
Blazer, Jimmy Full Size 77-91 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
Blazer, Jimmy Full Size 69-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"

 

[yevgenievich]

The specs for mine were 0 +/-0.5 for camber when I took it in. I have not considered early squares. Tire rotation should be kept up with as well, especially larger tires, but then toe would likely change a bit as well
Car specs often do not apply today due to tires and tech, I am running way different on my TA and same will be for 67 camaro. Towards end of square bodies specs should be decent for solid axle front

Edit. The correct answer would be to check alignment and see what needs to be fixed. Camber and caster takes a lot more work to correct than toe. If there is more information about specific vehicle, I am sure a good set of alignment specifications could be defined

The alignment spec for older cars are based on what they were new, so our trucks have had the same specs since 73. Suspension technology and understand the geometry of the suspension has come along way since 73.

Borrowed this from CK5, if you follow through the specs on this it says 1.50 degree of camber +-1 degree, this means tolerable specs range depending on how you want to interpret it +2.5 to +.5 camber. It doesnt sound like alot but on my vette per globalwest alignment specs (I have their control arms) -.5 camber is what you want for daily/spirited driving race is -1.5 and will wear tires considerably more than-.5. Apply what we know know about camber and that tells us the truck should be close to 0 for max tire wear improved handling (considering). Ever notice the wear pattern on used large tires from these older trucks?

Model Year Left Caster Right Caster Camber Total Toe
Chevrolet/GMC
S-Series Pickup, Blazer ZR2 00-03 2.80° ± 1.00° 3.30° ± 1.00° 0.00° ± 1.00° 0.05" ± 0.10"
S-Series Pickup, Blazer ZR2 95-99 3.00° ± 0.50° 3.00° ± 0.50° 0.00° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.05"
Silverado/Sierra 1500–Except Crew Cab & SS 01-04 3.50° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
Silverado/Sierra 1500 99-02 4.25° ± 1.00° 4.75° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 07-08 3.40° ± 1.00° 3.20° ± 1.00° 0.10° ± 0.60° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 05-06 3.60° ± 1.00° 4.30° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K1500 Pickup 88-98 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
K2500 HD 05-08 4.25° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
K10, K20, K30 Pickup 77-87 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
K10, K20 Pickup 63-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"
Suburban/Tahoe 00-06 3.50° ± 1.00° 4.50° ± 1.00° 0.25° ± 0.50° 0.05" ± 0.10"
Suburban 1500, 2500 92-99 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
Tahoe, Yukon 1500 92-99 3.00° ± 1.00° 3.00° ± 1.00° 0.65° ± 0.50° 0.12" ± 0.10"
Suburban 10, 20 77-91 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
Suburban 10, 20 63-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"
Blazer, Jimmy Full Size 77-91 8.00° ± 1.00° 8.00° ± 1.00° 1.50° ± 0.75° 0.12" ± 0.05"
Blazer, Jimmy Full Size 69-76 4.00° ± 1.00° 4.00° ± 1.00° 1.00° ± 0.50° 0.00" ± 0.06"

 

[4WDKC]

The specs for mine were 0 +/-0.5 for camber when I took it in. I have not considered early squares. Tire rotation should be kept up with as well, especially larger tires, but then toe would likely change a bit as well
Car specs often do not apply today due to tires and tech, I am running way different on my TA and same will be for 67 camaro. Towards end of square bodies specs should be decent for solid axle front

Edit. The correct answer would be to check alignment and see what needs to be fixed. Camber and caster takes a lot more work to correct than toe. If there is more information about specific vehicle, I am sure a good set of alignment specifications could be defined

Id like to see the rest of the specs that were used for your alignment, I was saying to use the vets spec to apply the theory. ok so then compare spec of newer solid axle trucks see how theirs look . There is another post on this forum somewhere a user said their truck has +1.5 camber.

 

[yevgenievich]

If I remember correctly at 1.5° camber discussion was on how to correct it. I must have been lucky, mine was -1.5° camber initially and was around -0.25 after ball joints and wheel bearings. With no lift caster rarely need change.
Taking quick search on jeep wrangler, similar camber and toe settings seem to show up (0
CAMBER − 0.25° ± 0.37° (-0.62° to +0.12°) MAX LT/RT DIFFERENCE ± 0.5°
TOTAL TOE-IN + 0.20° (0.10° each front wheel) ±0.03° MAX LT/RT DIFFERENCE 0.04°)

 

[1987 GMC Jimmy]

Id like to see the rest of the specs that were used for your alignment, I was saying to use the vets spec to apply the theory. ok so then compare spec of newer solid axle trucks see how theirs look . There is another post on this forum somewhere a user said their truck has +1.5 camber.

That’s me. The +1.5 is right on the money for the factory spec, but I don’t much care for that. I figure it’ll chew up my tires driving it for too long so I’m thinking I’ll do a 1* negative correction to bring it to .5* positive. Gotta get it running right first, though.

 

[idahovette]

It all depends on how much you are driving and what kind of roads I would rather see you shoot for 0 camber ,less wear on the outer edges. Of course the toe is gonna be the biggest factor in wear ,with the weight of these trucks. If you drive a straight line road mostly the wear won't be as bad, but if you have several corners the wear will be inner AND outer edges. Air pressure is another big deal.

 

[1987 GMC Jimmy]

So an even keel is the desired goal? I gotcha. My toe and caster are fine; it's just the camber that's so off.