Replacing a single frame rail, can it be done?

[Bennyt]

I know a few of you are going to disagree with me but I really don't think any sort of jig is necessary. The OP isn't doing any fabrication, purely replacing one riveted part for another. With 5-6 cross members it should square up as tightened. Again, these frames flex significantly and aren't perfect from the factory. If this was a hydro formed or unibody, I'd be more concerned.

The only way it would be out of spec is if there was some significant frame damage. Unfortunately as we were assembling the front suspension, we did find a bend in the right front rail, possibly from a previous collision. I brought the rolling chassis to a true frame shop that has been in business 50 years. All they do is frames, occasionally some suspension and alignment. He trammed the frame and straightened the rail and told me to bring it back when truck was done to double check it all. I believe it was about 4 hours to set up the tram and a hour to straighten. If it weren't for the bend, I wouldn't even have brought it over.

 

[bucket]

I know a few of you are going to disagree with me but I really don't think any sort of jig is necessary. The OP isn't doing any fabrication, purely replacing one riveted part for another. With 5-6 cross members it should square up as tightened. Again, these frames flex significantly and aren't perfect from the factory. If this was a hydro formed or unibody, I'd be more concerned.

The only way it would be out of spec is if there was some significant frame damage. Unfortunately as we were assembling the front suspension, we did find a bend in the right front rail, possibly from a previous collision. I brought the rolling chassis to a true frame shop that has been in business 50 years. All they do is frames, occasionally some suspension and alignment. He trammed the frame and straightened the rail and told me to bring it back when truck was done to double check it all. I believe it was about 4 hours to set up the tram and a hour to straighten. If it weren't for the bend, I wouldn't even have brought it over.

I agree, if only changing the rail, it will be straight enough. But if replacing all the rivets on the other rail too, it will need to be checked for square during assembly.


Straightening these frames is actually a bit difficult. They have a lot of rebound in them, it can take a lot of pulling.

 

[nitrocharger]

Not really a big deal to do. While we didn't separate all the way down, we did remove all but 2-3 cross members for repairs/ replacement.

These frames are pretty flexy and aren't perfectly square from new if you ask me. Don't tighten all the way until all bolts are in and really should square up fine as assembled.

Drill out every rivet. Separate into pieces. Drill to 3/8 or 7/16 as mentioned above. Use G8 hardware with the pinch nuts. I also used the AN style G8 flat washers under the head and Nut. I like the AN as they are smaller outer diameter and less play on bolt shank. And ultimately look better. I have a nut and bolt shop near me that probably has 5-10 different styles of G8 washer for any given size. $8 a pound.

We also cut frame in half to shorten and C-notch at same time. My son was 14 at the time and it was his 1st time drilling rivets and using a sawzall and it came out fine

Good info, thanks. About how much did that bare frame weight when it was broken down? Here is a picture of mine, with the rail to be removed highlighted. Im keeping the crossmembers intact on the rail I plan to keep hoping that keeps some degree of perpendicularity. I started making some comparative measurements between the 2 frames and I'm seeing a 3/16" difference center to center on the mid crossmember rivets.

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[Bennyt]

Good info, thanks. About how much did that bare frame weight when it was broken down? Here is a picture of mine, with the rail to be removed highlighted. Im keeping the crossmembers intact on the rail I plan to keep hoping that keeps some degree of perpendicularity. I started making some comparative measurements between the 2 frames and I'm seeing a 3/16" difference center to center on the mid crossmember rivets.

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The weight was probably 250. Two of us could lift/ move it on/ off trailer.

Isn't all your vin info on the right frame rail?

What are your plans for the truck? Any performance, bags, engine swap? Now would be a good time to install frame reinforcement such as GSI or Porterbilt if you plan to do anything with substantial power or???

Also, really check out where the steering box mounts and look for cracks. I'd at the minimum add steering box braces from Ridetech to triangulate front rails, and braces from ORD or Autofab.

Also, long beds with the 2-piece driveshafts have a extra cross member that the rear cab mounts to instead of just body mounts on the frame. It is very strong/ heavy and adds a lot of rigidity.

 

[nitrocharger]

Vin is on pass side rail that would get replaced. I want to keep the truck as stock/original as possible with just some undercover performance pieces that the General made such as a 700R4, posi, C30 tach dash, and some muscle car heads on the period-correct 350 my dad and i pulled from the junkyard. Maybe 300hp max. I'll look into the long bed crossmember, might be a good upgrade- or another place for rust to form

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll report back when I make some progress on this.

 

[Grit dog]

I have to ask, aside from a true numbers matching resto (which really is useless on a square as there are 1000s of clean original trucks that don’t need extensive heavy duty resto (like a new frame rail), has anyone actually ever had their frame or other places VIN checked?
I’ve only lived in and registered vehicles in maybe a dozen different states and never once has a verification of the frame vin been part of the equation.
Is this a real concern somewhere or just supposition that it actually matters to have a matching # frame for some real purpose?

 

[SquareRoot]

Either way, it's a candidate for an LS swap. OP might want to start calling random businesses' all over the country for quotes....

 

[nitrocharger]

I have to ask, aside from a true numbers matching resto (which really is useless on a square as there are 1000s of clean original trucks that don’t need extensive heavy duty resto (like a new frame rail), has anyone actually ever had their frame or other places VIN checked?
I’ve only lived in and registered vehicles in maybe a dozen different states and never once has a verification of the frame vin been part of the equation.
Is this a real concern somewhere or just supposition that it actually matters to have a matching # frame for some real purpose?

Welcome to NC. It's because of this guy that the rest of us with out-of-state pre '81 vehicles have to suffer
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/state-dmv-commissioner-resigns/83-402410376

 

[DoubleDingo]

Good info, thanks. About how much did that bare frame weight when it was broken down? Here is a picture of mine, with the rail to be removed highlighted. Im keeping the crossmembers intact on the rail I plan to keep hoping that keeps some degree of perpendicularity. I started making some comparative measurements between the 2 frames and I'm seeing a 3/16" difference center to center on the mid crossmember rivets.

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If you're replacing the passenger rail, you're not keeping the original VIN of the frame rail, unless you hang that original rail on the wall as garage art. Just use the donor frame and be done with it.

 

[Ricko1966]

Welcome to NC. It's because of this guy that the rest of us with out-of-state pre '81 vehicles have to suffer
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/state-dmv-commissioner-resigns/83-402410376

Kansas has been out of state sales to Kansas residents had to have a VIN verification for at least the last 40 years, and sometimes on antique registrations. Also antique registrations have to be original vehicles,no LS swaps,no mag wheels,etc. It sucks when you buy a truck from MO. that's already been messed with and you have to hunt down original wheels etc. to register it.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Yes, you can replace just the one rail. Time and money wise, it makes no sense, but for sentimental reasons, it kinda sorta makes sense.

If you are replacing ALL the rivets with bolts, make sure the frame stays square as you bolt it all together. I'd start at the front. Drill out all the holes from ~3/8" up to 7/16" and assemble with grade 8 hardware. Preferably bolts with flange heads and also pinch-loc flange nuts.

i hate that the leaf spring broke on my 77 folling frame, because to fix it would just require a new rear axle, hangers, springs(only 1 technically, the other is fine)

And a rear crossmember (the one furthest back on the frame) and axle breaking off at the hangers on one side when i went to move it to steal its hub locker internals to fix my 1980s
(thank god they happened to be the same, it turns out early 1977 would have had a different spindle, hub, and locker assembly. without an original spicer to steal parts from id have to have gotten a aftermarket set to just fix one side because one component was damaged lol. )

anyway, you can see in the second photo aftrer the carrier bearing crossmember that it "folds" in

thats the worst spot, the other rail is good and that i imagine is more work aligning things and bracing than fixing with a new crossmember/axle/springs
Otherwise its a pretty damn good rolling k25 1977 frame with the transmission and t case and driveshafts. The front axle isnt super good and ive stolen from it , but id have more value here to sell to someone if it was complete

but someone who has an accident may find this a much more useful purchase than someone looking to build a truck. If the OP Isnt super attached to your one frame rail, and your body is ok, buy a roller and do some upgrades and improvements and get it coated perfectly and do some brake upgrades, install a glide out spare tire carrier or a a really nice custom hitch and bumpers etc


would be better utilization of time and energy

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[AuroraGirl]

Kansas has been out of state sales to Kansas residents had to have a VIN verification for at least the last 40 years, and sometimes on antique registrations. Also antique registrations have to be original vehicles,no LS swaps,no mag wheels,etc. It sucks when you buy a truck from MO. that's already been messed with and you have to hunt down original wheels etc. to register it.

you guys also need a court order to do a completely missing title reissue
vs here i just need to get a bond and do paperwork with the state and submit, if they ask, for in person inspection by state trooper ,otherwise they just ask for well taken photos with the application

 

[Bennyt]

I have to ask, aside from a true numbers matching resto (which really is useless on a square as there are 1000s of clean original trucks that don’t need extensive heavy duty resto (like a new frame rail), has anyone actually ever had their frame or other places VIN checked?
I’ve only lived in and registered vehicles in maybe a dozen different states and never once has a verification of the frame vin been part of the equation.
Is this a real concern somewhere or just supposition that it actually matters to have a matching # frame for some real purpose?

Never have I had the frame vins checked and compared to the door or dash plate.

I think it really is a non-issue especially considering the amount of trucks built with aftermarket frames.

 

[AuroraGirl]

i hate that the leaf spring broke on my 77 folling frame, because to fix it would just require a new rear axle, hangers, springs(only 1 technically, the other is fine)

And a rear crossmember (the one furthest back on the frame) and axle breaking off at the hangers on one side when i went to move it to steal its hub locker internals to fix my 1980s
(thank god they happened to be the same, it turns out early 1977 would have had a different spindle, hub, and locker assembly. without an original spicer to steal parts from id have to have gotten a aftermarket set to just fix one side because one component was damaged lol. )

anyway, you can see in the second photo aftrer the carrier bearing crossmember that it "folds" in

thats the worst spot, the other rail is good and that i imagine is more work aligning things and bracing than fixing with a new crossmember/axle/springs
Otherwise its a pretty damn good rolling k25 1977 frame with the transmission and t case and driveshafts. The front axle isnt super good and ive stolen from it , but id have more value here to sell to someone if it was complete

but someone who has an accident may find this a much more useful purchase than someone looking to build a truck. If the OP Isnt super attached to your one frame rail, and your body is ok, buy a roller and do some upgrades and improvements and get it coated perfectly and do some brake upgrades, install a glide out spare tire carrier or a a really nice custom hitch and bumpers etc


would be better utilization of time and energy

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Also, long beds with the 2-piece driveshafts have a extra cross member that the rear cab mounts to instead of just body mounts on the frame. It is very strong/ heavy and adds a lot of rigidity.

speaking of that.. did you mean the one in my photo set i sent?

 

[AuroraGirl]

Never have I had the frame vins checked and compared to the door or dash plate.

I think it really is a non-issue especially considering the amount of trucks built with aftermarket frames.

i think it depends on the state. especially if there is no title that is readily legally transfered, youre at the mercy of the states system And weve heard from members here its the cab sometimes , sometimes its the frame
Of course, if its going off the cab make sure your rivets on the door frame are the security rivets because if they are normal, that would be a flag for "theft" but more so these days means paint and body work or cab swaps. if the title says a vin, and the cab matches (there should be a vin in the base of windshield by driver 78+), i cant see no one asking to see a frame partial

but it may depend on certain plate requirements vs regular yearly tags etc