Whining noise

[pattison87]

Hey guys I have a whining noise coming from the front of my engine. Very loud at the front of the truck. Sounds seem to be coming from timing chain area. I took off all the accessory belts and started the truck and still did it. Sounds like a gear drive. Any ideas?

87 k10 has v-drive belts. Just rebuild throttle body with bigger fuel spring. Egr delete. Long tubes. The block is a 1999 vortec block with tbi heads. Vortec cam.

 

[pattison87]

Another quick question

I have an exhaust leak on just the passenger side. They are headman headers long tube. I cut the flanges. Any way to mill down the primary tube welds in the "head" side of the header for a better fit? Or any ideas to stop this annoying leak

 

[pattison87]

Did I post something incorrectly where people can't reply?

 

[350runner]

could it be your power steering?

Sent from the dust in front of you!

 

[MadOgre]

Its just kinda hard to grasp what happening with the limited amount of info. Sounds like one of those issues where you just need to be there.

Can you post a vid to youtube and put the link here?

 

[pattison87]

I can't post a video at this moment. But let me try to explain better. The sound I'm hearing sounds like I have a gear drive instead of a timing chain. But I have a timing chain. The "whining" sound I'm hearing sounds like it's coming from the front of the engine. You can hear the sound very noticeably when standing in front of the truck with your ear next to the grill. I thought it was the ac pump, altinator, or the power steering pump. I removed all the belts and started the truck and ran it with nothing else spinning. I still hear the sound even when I do that. And it still sounds like it's coming from the front of the engine.
Mad ogre

 

[MadOgre]

Well if your certain that it is coming from inside the engine........Its time to open her up

 

[Don5]

Worn Timing chain rubbing the cover maybe? I think I read somewhere that there were two timing chain covers. One of them is much shallower than the other. It could be that someone put the shallow one in. I also read where someone replaced a timing chain and it rubbed the cover. I think it was in one of the build threads. In any event, I would be pulling the cover off and taking a close look.

 

[HotRodPC]

Dumb Question. What transmission do you have? So you're saying you're removed all the belts on the front of the motor and started it up and still make the noise? That would eliminate the all the pumps and alternator right? And you're 100% positive it's coming from the front of the motor and it's just not sound echoing or being thrown to the front of the engine bay?

Reason I ask about the trans. Sometimes when an auto trans pump is going out or a converter, they will whine. That's usually in the Th350 or Th350 with the crescent gear driving pump. Not so much in the 700r4 that has the vane driven pump in the aluminum housing.

Another known issue. Th400's have known to have an issue where the pump pressure can be to strong and the converter pushes on the crank. Over time what can happen is the converter pushes on the crank so much it can actually causes the thrust on the crank to wear. Once that happens, then the it tends to push the crank forward and the olny thing really holding the crank from walking is the con rods which don't allow much movement since the con rods are connected to the pistons and the pistons will tend to hold the con rods in place. Again over time, there is a chain reaction and catastrophic failures begin to happen. In fact, if you've ever heard of "Save the Crank" when it comes to a Th400, there is fix for that issue so that the pump bleed off the extra pressure or blocks the pressure. I actually forget now. This is actually a more common problem in the Grand Nationasl where the crank is small and lightweight as well as high performance, but it does happen to others too.

 

[pattison87]

Couple people told me it was the timing chain but when the truck was running I put my hand on the cover and felt nothing. Guess it wouldn't hurt to take it off and see what's going on.

I have a 700r4. I took the inspection plate of yesterday, started the truck and nothing from underneath. Still hear it from the front. I guess the sound could be traveling through the whole motor to the front?

I've been having what I think is altinator issues seeing my volt gauge likes to fluctuate for some reason and drop below 8 with the lights, radio, and heater on. When I have all these on the pitch of the whining sound changes. I believe because it's the load being put on the alternator. Maybe I should replace that anyway see if anything changes.

 

[HotRodPC]

OK, so a 700r4 does NOT make the whining noise when the pump is going out, and it does NOT have the crank thrust problem so that issue is eliminated. So the alternator is still hooked up on the belt drive? Loosen that belt (If it's not sepentine) and see if the noise goes away.

You can also get a $2-$3 cheap but very effective stethoscope from Harbor Freight and start touching components with the end of it. A long screwdriver with the handle to your ear, or even a sawed off broom stick or shovel handle can do the same thing. Put your ear to one end of the handle and touch the alternator casing with the other. Closest to the front of the alternator where the main front bearing is would be best. The sound will travel through whatever your touching it with. If you can reach in there with the motor running, and ever so carefully not to get it caught up in any moving part, you can also put whatever you're using on the timing cover or get under the truck and even on the oil pan.

You'll either have to chase the noise down, or find it by process of elimination but it can done.

 

[chengny]

I see these two statements:

1. I took off all the accessory belts and started the truck and still did it. Sounds like a
gear drive.

2. I thought it was the ac pump, altinator, or the power steering pump. I removed all
the belts and started the truck and ran it with nothing else spinning. I still hear the
sound even when I do that. And it still sounds like it's coming from the front of the
engine.


But later on you state/ask this:

I've been having what I think is altinator issues seeing my volt gauge likes to fluctuate for some reason and drop below 8 with the lights, radio, and heater on. When I have all these on the pitch of the whining sound changes. I believe because it's the load being put on the alternator. Maybe I should replace that anyway see if anything changes.

Begs the question;

How could the noise be from the alternator - if you can still hear it with the alternator belt removed?

One thought - and this is a longshot, but it's something to consider:

Is it possible that the noise is related to the exhaust leak discussed below:

I have an exhaust leak on just the passenger side. They are headman headers long tube. I cut the flanges. Any way to mill down the primary tube welds in the "head" side of the header for a better fit? Or any ideas to stop this annoying leak.

Did you use gaskets to seal the header flanges/cylinder head joint?

Gasses flowing past a loose gasket can cause the gasket to vibrate. This is true of any leaky/loose gasket - not just exhaust gaskets. The result can be a whining/buzzing sound. For example, did you ever put a blade of grass between your thumbs and blow on it? It's like that.

 

[pattison87]

Sorry haven't got back to you guys. Pretty sure it's the timing chain making the noise. Bought the stethoscope and listened to a few things. I can hear the sound in the timing cover as well as another sound like the chain is hitting the cover itself. Now the question is gear drive or double roller.

 

[chengny]

Of course you could pull the water pump, balancer and timing chain cover. But there are two other ways to see what kind of timing arrangement you have:

1. Pull the intake manifold and look through the oil drain holes in the front of the lifter valley:

You must be registered for see images attach

2. Drop the pan (no big deal with a 4WD) and look in through the back side of the cover:

You must be registered for see images attach

You can choose your poison.

But if you are fairly certain the noise is coming from the timing assembly - it's a no brainer. To make things right, you are going to have to pull the water pump/balancer/cover at some point anyway- so you might as well check the setup from the front.

 

[HotRodPC]

Chances are it's not a gear drive. Could be I guess, since now they make a quieter gear drive unit. Normally when a chain gets enough slack in it to rub the side of the timing cover, it's bad enough to have jumped time. Of course I'm not aware of how a double roller chain with a deep sprocket teeth do, so maybe it is a double chain. Unless the crank is walking I don't know what else could be whining inside the cover other than the chain.

It'll be interesting to see what you find out. Do be sure to post back and let us know what you find. Pics would be great too.