No spark!

[DLowe402]

OK need a bit of help here. My 84 C20 (350/400) has been giving me some troubles. Sputtering and low power. Ran like **** the other day coming home from the hardware store. next day wouldn't start at all. Cranked and would fire but wouldn't start. Looked like fuel pump wasn't pumping (clear filter) so I got a new pump and filter. No dice. Pump is definitely pumping better as it fills up the filet quickly and it stays full now so I definitely think that WAS a problem.

Checked the spark and it was weak. Checked it again after a little bit and it was non-existant. Checked wire and can't find any that appear bad. Next, opened up the distributor and the coil was burnt. AHH, there's the problem right? Went to Autozone and got a new coil along with a new Cap/Rotor combo. Why not replace it at the same time right? Got home and put it all together, STILL NO SPARK!

Did the Google and found that a bad Ignition Control Module gave a lot of the symptoms I was experiencing. Back to Autozone to pick one up but they only had the Accel Hi-Po module for $49. The clerk seemed a little knowledgable and was able to test the old one for me. He did so 3 times and every time, it showed to be bad. I happened to have $40 credit and he knocked 10% off the Accel so I got it but when I got it all back together, STILL NO SPARK!

I have been to Autozone 3 times today, (22 miles round trip each) and am getting a little tired of going back.

So, any ideas? Could it be the Pick Up Coil or the Radio Frequency Interf Condenser? What else should I look at?

I would appreciate any and all assistance on this.

Thanks

 

[DLowe402]

OK, Just checked the battery wire to the coil with the key on and it has juice. Just to rule that out...

 

[MrMarty51]

hook a volt meter to the pickup coil terminals,with them unplugged from the module,set volt meter to millavolts,DC,see if there is a reading,whilst cranking the engine.try both wires.

 

[DLowe402]

Ok, so I have all new parts in my disty. Pick up coil, control module, rf condensor, rotor, cap and coil. All of which were bad which was indicated by melted wiring and test results. Got spark but still won't run. I know I'm getting gas. Just put a new fuel pump and clear filter. I can see it full and pumping. Pulled a plug and I seem to have good compression. Sucks my finger in and blows it out accordingly. I don't have a compression tester to see for sure what it is but feels strong. Engine cranks smooth and the disty turns accordingly so why ain't she starting? I put the disty back as it came out. I have checked and rechecked. Getting a little nervous that it could be a timing chain issue. Any tell tale signs to look for?
Thanks

 

[MrMarty51]

Look down into the carb and verify that the accelerator pump is actually squirting fuel into the airhoirn.
An engine with a jumped timing chain will act veryt much like an engine that has been flooded,prpping back through carb,almost but not quite running,then asx soon as the key is releasd to the run position it dies.

 

[wildcatjason]

Lesson number one. Never go to autozone for parts. Especially electrical if you didn't buy a crap coil out of the box it will go out in the next year. I have spent so much money at that pitiful excuse for a parts store and if it works out of the box it won't for much longer.

 

[wildcatjason]

Ok, so I have all new parts in my disty. Pick up coil, control module, rf condensor, rotor, cap and coil. All of which were bad which was indicated by melted wiring and test results. Got spark but still won't run. I know I'm getting gas. Just put a new fuel pump and clear filter. I can see it full and pumping. Pulled a plug and I seem to have good compression. Sucks my finger in and blows it out accordingly. I don't have a compression tester to see for sure what it is but feels strong. Engine cranks smooth and the disty turns accordingly so why ain't she starting? I put the disty back as it came out. I have checked and rechecked. Getting a little nervous that it could be a timing chain issue. Any tell tale signs to look for?
Thanks

If your getting spark and fuel. It should start. Is there a sputter? Make me think the distributor is off. It's easy to do. Even a tooth off. Go get a 30 dollar timing light. It way easier then guessing.

 

[350runner]

X2 no auto zone! Spent over 200 on there crap alternators in two years

 

[Driver4r]

WOH WOH WOH, Whats with all the Autozone hatin.....

Ive NEVER had a problem with them.
And neither have other people I know.

 

[DLowe402]

Gas is squirting into the carb. It IS sputtering and then shutting off when the key goes to the run position. This isn't sounding good. Question about the timing...several people have said to make sure the Dizzy isn't off by a tooth or two but I have messed with it and messed with it but it will only seat in 2 positions: What appears to be right and 180 degrees out. Not sure how to get it off by a tooth if I tried. It just doesn't drop in all the way and I believe it's because of the spade in the middle of the gear from the shaft. Am I correct?

So next question...Can a timing chain be done in place or am I looking at pulling the motor?

Oh, and I am realizing how bad AZ is but ain't got too much choice for when I need parts quick.

Thanks for all the feedback too!

 

[philjafo]

That spade in the center of the gear is the oil pump drive, it will move to let you put the distributer in any position. However if your off by one or two teeth it can still usually be timed correctly it will just be rotated farther then normal, and they don't just spontaneously skip a tooth.
The timing chain can be replaced with the motor in the truck but not very common for a SBC to jump a tooth on the timing chain. Put a timing light on it, check for vacuum leaks, make sure you have a bright blue spark a weak yellow one don't cut it.

 

[wildcatjason]

WOH WOH WOH, Whats with all the Autozone hatin.....

Ive NEVER had a problem with them.
And neither have other people I know.

I've had them do anything to over bore a crate engine to electrical part failure one after the other. I've even replaced a camshaft sensor in a jeep. Still didn't fire sold it dirt cheap because that is the only thing it could have been and the next owner replaced the same **** sensor from autozone. Fired right up. I could go on and on regarding alternators, starters, coils and I'm done with that place! I'd drive 50 miles for oreillys then cross the street for autozone, but if I can I get it from summit or online factory parts.

 

[Irishman999]

Im going to agree with everyone trashing Autozone, Everything I buy from them fails within a year. 99.9% of their parts guys dont have a clue about auto parts or even seem to care to learn the trade, they treat the job like making bigmacs. I have been to several Autozones in different states and they all suck major ass, Last two times I was at the local one here I was so pissed off I left their parking lot laying rubber.

As far as your spark issues go:

I had a problem with mine that was kinda similar, turned out to be a small ground clip that was missing out of the plug where the wire harness plug plugs into the distributor cap. I failed to put it back in when I changed distributor cap and it ended up under the truck on the floor. This would cause the truck to start and run sometimes and other times I could not get spark at all.

Other thing that comes to mind that might not apply since I cant remember what year the truck is:

There is a electronic spark control box that retards timing to avoid knocking, they can fail and cause all kinds of problems. You dont need the knock sensor system at all and you can totally just phase it out with a jumper wire in the distributor (if your truck has this).

As far as the timing, as mentioned before: You can be a tooth off and get it to run right. If the distributor is that far off you will have backfiring like a **** out of the carb throat. I have had my timing way way way off and it would still start and run decently.

Hope any of this helps.

 

[DLowe402]

Im going to agree with everyone trashing Autozone, Everything I buy from them fails within a year. 99.9% of their parts guys dont have a clue about auto parts or even seem to care to learn the trade, they treat the job like making bigmacs. I have been to several Autozones in different states and they all suck major ass, Last two times I was at the local one here I was so pissed off I left their parking lot laying rubber.

As far as your spark issues go:

I had a problem with mine that was kinda similar, turned out to be a small ground clip that was missing out of the plug where the wire harness plug plugs into the distributor cap. I failed to put it back in when I changed distributor cap and it ended up under the truck on the floor. This would cause the truck to start and run sometimes and other times I could not get spark at all.

Other thing that comes to mind that might not apply since I cant remember what year the truck is:

There is a electronic spark control box that retards timing to avoid knocking, they can fail and cause all kinds of problems. You dont need the knock sensor system at all and you can totally just phase it out with a jumper wire in the distributor (if your truck has this).

As far as the timing, as mentioned before: You can be a tooth off and get it to run right. If the distributor is that far off you will have backfiring like a **** out of the carb throat. I have had my timing way way way off and it would still start and run decently.

Hope any of this helps.

I initially did not have that ground wire in it because there wasn't one in the old cap. I have since replaced it to ensure that that wasn't the problem but no change.

The electronic spark control box you speak of...Would that be the ignition control module? I did change that and it is an Accel Hi-Po as that is all they had at the time. It was $49 (twice as much as the standard) but I had $40 credit so I went with it. If there is something different, where is it because I can't find anything different.

Autozone...yea those guys are tards. I usually look the part up myself and tell them to pull a part number. much easier than suffering through them trying to find something they can't even spell. I started this when i went in asking about Points and Condensor for my 67 Fairlane (i know..."FORD") and the guy first didn't guy first didn't know what those were. then he asked what a "Fairlane" was...GEEZ! Anyway, I am seriously going to be be looking into other sources for parts.

So, i guess i am going to get a timing light and see how far off I am. I'll get my daughter to help crank.

Thanks again

 

[MrMarty51]

I initially did not have that ground wire in it because there wasn't one in the old cap. I have since replaced it to ensure that that wasn't the problem but no change.

The electronic spark control box you speak of...Would that be the ignition control module? I did change that and it is an Accel Hi-Po as that is all they had at the time. It was $49 (twice as much as the standard) but I had $40 credit so I went with it. If there is something different, where is it because I can't find anything different.

Autozone...yea those guys are tards. I usually look the part up myself and tell them to pull a part number. much easier than suffering through them trying to find something they can't even spell. I started this when i went in asking about Points and Condensor for my 67 Fairlane (i know..."FORD") and the guy first didn't guy first didn't know what those were. then he asked what a "Fairlane" was...GEEZ! Anyway, I am seriously going to be be looking into other sources for parts.

So, i guess i am going to get a timing light and see how far off I am. I'll get my daughter to help crank.

Thanks again

Now You`re on the right track,with the helper and a timing light.