ignition timing crazy

[Bextreme04]

It was on the rear of the crank, here ill go see if i cant grab a pic

The rear main seal?

 

[Grit dog]

Yes, you're confusing components.
No such thing as a crank pulley seal and no timing marks on the pulley.

And you're kinda threadjacking the guy with the timing issue...

 

[AuroraGirl]

No, I mean, Im using the incorrect words but its the rubber piece that, to my knowledge, the timing marks ride on. Over time it moves, yes? Im asking WITH the OP, if the rubber part there is squished out, or the parts around it need adressing, is it not more time-conserving to just replace? Rather than do all the work to find where the mark should be.

 

[Grit dog]

Yes technically if the outer part of the harmonic balancer (that’s the piece you’re referring to, but it can’t leak because there’s nothing in it to leak) slips in relation to the inner part (the rubber isolator cracks or comes loose from one or the other) then your crank will also see more harmonic loads and decrease longevity of the main bearings.
But if it’s in the right spot, it’s in the right spot and you can either check it in the Spark plug hole or with a timing light.
Which I thought you were talking about doing a while ago.

good luck removing 40 year old crank pulley bolts, crankshaft bolt and harmonic balancer. Unless it’s in bad shape that’s about the last thing I’d want to try to do. Especially if you can’t get a puller and impact wrench on it.

so, no, it’s not just easier to replace a suspect part that is a b!tch to remove unless you need to.
But first you need to know if it’s spun or not.

 

[Grit dog]

Double post

 

[AuroraGirl]

Yes technically if the outer part of the harmonic balancer (that’s the piece you’re referring to, but it can’t leak because there’s nothing in it to leak) slips in relation to the inner part (the rubber isolator cracks or comes loose from one or the other) then your crank will also see more harmonic loads and decrease longevity of the main bearings.
But if it’s in the right spot, it’s in the right spot and you can either check it in the Spark plug hole or with a timing light.
Which I thought you were talking about doing a while ago.

good luck removing 40 year old crank pulley bolts, crankshaft bolt and harmonic balancer. Unless it’s in bad shape that’s about the last thing I’d want to try to do. Especially if you can’t get a puller and impact wrench on it.

so, no, it’s not just easier to replace a suspect part that is a b!tch to remove unless you need to.
But first you need to know if it’s spun or not.

Okay, thanks. Thats what I was wondering. But no, even if I had to remove it I dont htink it will be as hard, it was out 20 years ago since it was put in from likely a car. And its been done before, as I can see the RTV mess

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i didnt shoot straight on on it, but the seal between the pulley and the harmonic, which you say it should be okay

But i will be taking my radiator out soon for replacement, it maybe is a good time to do the harmonic balancer? Since I could get my huge impact in there?

 

[75Monza]

Trick I've used in the past for stubborn crank bolts is disconnect ignition power to distributor, long breaker bar with 6 point socket on the bolt and bar wedged against bottom of frame (for SBC since it's clockwise rotation, that would be passenger side) and bump the starter. I always make sure to turn engine by hand so breaker bar wedged tight against frame with no slack. Works well as long as you just bump starter and don't crank it crazy, lol.

 

[Grit dog]

^Ive done that too, but wouldn’t recommend that trick to a newbie.
Only 20 years? Lol ok.
Read the guy's balancer removal problems thread about 3 threads north of this one...

 

[peats]

what's wrong with just timing it by ear and see how it works. bump it a little advance and see what happens, if no good retard it a little at a time. doesn't seem like this engine has a sweet spot. my guess is timing chain and camshaft. probably not been using a zinc additive. one more thing to check is firing order. dont know if the wires were removed from the cap.

 

[Craig Nedrow]

was running ok for a daily driver since i bought her ,then after sorting fuel system after it stopped running i decided to check timing and get it running great and fully serviced etc.Found dizzy cap and contact had burnt out and also noticed rotor was pointing at front centre of truck,not no1 cylinder at tdc on compression,so i replaced cap and contact and reset distributor .It is now all reset as per spec.I wonder if PO set it due to chain being off?It sounds like id better go through everything eh ,miles???shes old but no leaks and no smoke,thanks for helping

JohnnyB, post #9 quoted here. I have had rigs I bought that had the cam installed wrong, and the only way to get it running was to set the distributor like this post says. While you did change some internal parts, the only difference from before is where you set the distributor. It is lots easier to pull the dist, and reinstall it the way it was, and test it. If it backfires through the carb, that meant the intake is still open, advanced. Just something to think about. Also on my 73 some parts I replaced were bad from the factory, saying this, so you can methodically think what you have done, and retrace each step. Is this a points dist? (dizzy cap and contact had burnt?) what are you referring to, rotor or points? is this electronic, should be unless PO switched. think about each thing you have done and analyse. Good success.

 

[Vbb199]

If the timing chain is stretched, it will cause both cam timing and the distributor to run late, so simply advancing the distributor cannot correct the issue.

Yes, higher compression will require a higher octane fuel, but do you know the history of the engine ?

The distributor timing can be adjusted for less advance to help with the pinging issue, but performance will suffer.

If you do in fact have a high compression engine, you are stuck having to feed it premium grade gas to insure longevity of engine life (pinging can do a LOT of expensive damage) and to enjoy the power and performance it's built to produce.

Told a kiddo younger than me that just built himself a Chevy "360" with vortec heads, flat tops, deck had been dropped, etc......

the same thing.

By my estimate, it was easily a 12:1 motor, maybe more.

Wanted to be a cheap bitch and run 87 octane in the motor and turn the timing down....

I told the little ****** all the pinging and turning the timing way down would demolish his top end...

"bleh bleh bleh" I didn't know what I was saying, the local ****** down the road knew it all... Kid got into a street race, he blew head gaskets, bent a couple push rods, flattened some lifters.... Etc, totally destroyed that motor...

Same people down the road convinced him that an LS 5.3 was the only way to go...
He ripped the tunnel off the top and installed a carb and MSD ignition....

Me and him ain't been friends since I kicked his ass with a 4.3

 

[QBuff02]

What are the condition of the advance weights, pins and bushings under the rotor in the distributor? It hasn't been mentioned yet that I saw, but if the weights, bushings and springs are worn it will cause the timing to do crazy things. I have seen timing be spot on one second and then all over the place (seen 20 degree swings with a timing light watching) the next and traced it down to the advancing mechanism of the distributor itself. Most people throw a new cap and rotor on and never give a second glance at them, and generally if there's any age on the unit those will either be froze up, or just plain worn out. And anymore, if there's any kind of wear- for the price of a decent complete distributor they aren't worth rebuilding. As simple as it is, i'd pop the cap and rotor back off and look at the condition of those parts and go from there.

 

[AuroraGirl]

What are the condition of the advance weights, pins and bushings under the rotor in the distributor? It hasn't been mentioned yet that I saw, but if the weights, bushings and springs are worn it will cause the timing to do crazy things. I have seen timing be spot on one second and then all over the place (seen 20 degree swings with a timing light watching) the next and traced it down to the advancing mechanism of the distributor itself. Most people throw a new cap and rotor on and never give a second glance at them, and generally if there's any age on the unit those will either be froze up, or just plain worn out. And anymore, if there's any kind of wear- for the price of a decent complete distributor they aren't worth rebuilding. As simple as it is, i'd pop the cap and rotor back off and look at the condition of those parts and go from there.

I can attest to this personally. In tracing down my improper wire order and stupidly retarded timing and bad aftermarket cap, I discovered my advance weights were sticking A LOT.
I cleaned them up in place with a wire wheel and brake clean. Used a tiny grease(I know it's supposed to be dry, but it's humid, I didn't perfectly clean it up, and it doesn't see a lot of use, so I used grease to prevent it from doing it again soon.

You must be registered for see images attach

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Here are my other HEI distributors for sbc. I should look at my Buick (small block Buick).

Without adjusting timing, my truck stopped hanging RPMs seemingly randomly. I thought it was carb related, because I had to readjust idle or it would stall randomly. But after cleaning, it really stopped it. I DO need to replace the bushings that the weights pivot on, they are shot. I'm sure that don't help!

 

[QBuff02]

I can attest to this personally. In tracing down my improper wire order and stupidly retarded timing and bad aftermarket cap, I discovered my advance weights were sticking A LOT.
I cleaned them up in place with a wire wheel and brake clean. Used a tiny grease(I know it's supposed to be dry, but it's humid, I didn't perfectly clean it up, and it doesn't see a lot of use, so I used grease to prevent it from doing it again soon.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Here are my other HEI distributors for sbc. I should look at my Buick (small block Buick).

Without adjusting timing, my truck stopped hanging RPMs seemingly randomly. I thought it was carb related, because I had to readjust idle or it would stall randomly. But after cleaning, it really stopped it. I DO need to replace the bushings that the weights pivot on, they are shot. I'm sure that don't help!

The look of your weights, pins and bushings from the first picture is EXACTLY the type of problem I was referring to. Repairing or replacing those components will solve all kinds of issues. Your pictures are a perfect reference for other members.

 

[AuroraGirl]

The look of your weights, pins and bushings from the first picture is EXACTLY the type of problem I was referring to. Repairing or replacing those components will solve all kinds of issues. Your pictures are a perfect reference for other members.

Yeah, its amazing what it does. I still needto find the bushings for the pivot, so its not metal on metal and it turns properly instead of likely binding periodically.