hard starting

[82eLCo77C10]

Alright. I've got a 350 SBC. I put a new edelbrock performer 2101 manifold on today. Dropped the dizzy in and now the motor lags like its out of timing. Most likely is. It starts, just lags the first try. I've heard that means it out of time. Did I not drop the the distributor in right? Dropped it in the wrong tooth? Any suggestions.

 

[Jims86]

Alright. I've got a 350 SBC. I put a new edelbrock performer 2101 manifold on today. Dropped the dizzy in and now the motor lags like its out of timing. Most likely is. It starts, just lags the first try. I've heard that means it out of time. Did I not drop the the distributor in right? Dropped it in the wrong tooth? Any suggestions.

Put your finger in the #1 spak plug hole, and have someone bump the key over till you finger blws out, then turn the crank pully with a breaker bar till the mark ligns up with 4*BTDC
Then mark the # 1 position on to the distributor base, and get it to drop in as close as possible to that mark. if it doesnt go all the way down, bump the key around a few times to lign it up on the oil pum shaft.
thats a good base setting...you can add more timing if you like, but provide its wired right, this should get you going.

 

[chengny]

Did you use a timing light to try to see where the timing is currently set?

I have always been curious about that old "one tooth off" theory. Specifically; how many degrees will the timing actually move if the distributor is stabbed one tooth out of it's proper mesh point with the cam.

Here is what I found:

There are 13 teeth on the distributor drive gear.

So if the distributor is stabbed one tooth out of position, the timing of the spark will be advanced (or retarded as the case may be) about 28 degrees in relation to it's associated post.

There are 8 posts in the distributor cap spaced evenly around the 360 degree arc.

That works out to 45 degrees of separation between one post to the next.

For the sake of argument, let's say that being one tooth off in the retarded (CW) direction will cause the rotor to be about halfway between the #1 and the #8 post when it fires the #1 plug.

If you look at the spacing of the posts on a 8 cylinder distributor cap, you'll see that it would be easy to rotate the distributor sufficiently to bring the rotor back in line with the #1 post.

That is taking into consideration the fact that the vacuum advance diaphram chamber limits how much the distributor can be rotated.

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The point of all this useless information is that if there is a concern that the distributor was stabbed one tooth off, timing can be brought back to normal without pulling the distributor.

No one would leave it like that. But, as a test, if the engine is running rough, it could be temporarily adjusted to confirm/eliminate improper timing as the cause.

 

[chengny]

What carburetor are you running on the new manifold?

It needs to be a spread bore style - a spread-bore carburetor is constructed with two small primary bores (for greater fuel economy) and two large secondary bores (to improve throttle response).

The 2101 is specifically designed for spread bore carbs. A square bore carb on a 2101 will mess up vacuum, flow, etc and the engine will run poorly.

 

[82eLCo77C10]

Thanks. I got the timing back to so lme what normal. It still has a problem starting but the motor idle and such is set. I am going to try and bring it back to TDC. And then go from there. The carb I am running is and edelbrock 1406. I did put a 1" spacer between the manifold and the carb. That's the way it was set up with the previous manifold(spc-2 edelbrock performance). I am about 95% positive that I've missed just slightly when I put the distributor back in. The bad part is that i don't have a proper timing mark on my balancer. So i will have to make a new one when i get it situated. I know that's not a good thing. That's why i can't use a timing light. I am going to pull the driver side valve cover of and pull the plugs and hand crank the motor to TDC. That way i know for sure that I'm at true TDC. I talked with a guy today at work about it and that seems to be the easiest way to do it. When i get it there should i mark the balancer?? Or what should i do?

 

[Jims86]

Thanks. I got the timing back to so lme what normal. It still has a problem starting but the motor idle and such is set. I am going to try and bring it back to TDC. And then go from there. The carb I am running is and edelbrock 1406. I did put a 1" spacer between the manifold and the carb. That's the way it was set up with the previous manifold(spc-2 edelbrock performance). I am about 95% positive that I've missed just slightly when I put the distributor back in. The bad part is that i don't have a proper timing mark on my balancer. So i will have to make a new one when i get it situated. I know that's not a good thing. That's why i can't use a timing light. I am going to pull the driver side valve cover of and pull the plugs and hand crank the motor to TDC. That way i know for sure that I'm at true TDC. I talked with a guy today at work about it and that seems to be the easiest way to do it. When i get it there should i mark the balancer?? Or what should i do?

You can also advance it until it pings whenyou drive it, then back it off a little for now. but get that pointer!

 

[chengny]

The bad part is that i don't have a proper timing mark on my balancer. So i will have to make a new one when i get it situated.


What do you mean by that?

You cant see the mark? The rubber bond failed and caused the outer ring to shift in relation to the hub? The timing mark is visible on the rim of the balancer but is located for an older/newer engine?

I'm guessing it the last suggested problem. You have a pre-86 balancer mounted on a late model engine. With the #1 piston at TDC-compression the mark is at about 2 o'clock and it should be at about 12 o'clock.

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if that's the case, just set the timing so the mark shows at about 12 o'clock and then do as Jims86 suggests:


You can also advance it until it pings when you drive it, then back it off a little

That's how I set my final timing these days. The factory timing spec was determined in a different world and can't be relied upon today.

The engine was new and every hose was in place and tight. The carburetor was a standard Rochester Quadrajet. The the intake manifold was stock. Gasoline had lead in it. Emission controls were minimal to non-existent. All these things factor into a manufacturer's timing specification; if they are altered, the original timing setting is useless.

Use 4 degrees BTDC (just to the right of high noon) for a rough setting and then use your ear and dial the timing in by "pinging" it.

 

[robert8096]

I had this problem before, the previous owner put on a timing cover with a 2 o'clock timing tab and the engine needed a 12 o'clock tab.

 

[82eLCo77C10]

The engine is a bf Goodrich crate motor. The guy I bought the truck from says it was fabricated as a pre 86 SBC. Its a hancho block. Not sure all of the specs on it. The only thing internal wise after market is the RV cam and the double roller timer gears and chain. The external is pretty much stock other than the accel super coil. I've got the timing back to where it starts somewhat normal. I've got it adjusted to where there's no "pinging" when driving. My question now is, will it have a loss in power if the distributor was not dropped in properly? Or as you guys said, my timing van always be set back to normal. But just won't run until I get the distributor dropped back in right. I gues I'm still to new at this to understand...