Braking power question

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Keith Seymore

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Anyway, assuming you have a 4.45 pedal ratio, you have the booster and master cylinder shown in the 4th column of Keith's document. Looks like JB5, but so is the one in the next column. ???

They are both JB5; column 4 is swb/lwb pickup (R10703; R10903), column 5 is Suburban (R10906).

Yes, there is also a CM booster/ZF master combo, but since there are no booster specs, I can't tell the difference between the CF and FD boosters. Could be a larger diameter diaphragm on the FD booster.

I believe that's a "CH".

CH = 240S, where S means "Single" diaphragm
FD = 240T, where T means "Tandem" diaphragm


K
 
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HotRodPC

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Well sunuva bish !!! Learn something new everyday. I never realized brakes, boosters and masters, and ratios were so technical. I had that 80 GMC Olds Diesel Truck that has Hydroboost on it. The Hydroboost went **** up and it wasn't worth all the funds for a new HB unit, so I simply went to Pull A Part, paid $15 for a used but new looking booster bolted it in, used the same master and it worked like a champ. Guess I got lucky now that I see all these different ratios.

BTW, all you guys providing all the Tech Data and info especially Keith... Great Job !!! Thanks for the addition. Reps will be added by me and probably end up making this a Sticky if I can clean it up a bit and re-title the thread.
 

MikeB

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I never realized brakes, boosters and masters, and ratios were so technical. I had that 80 GMC Olds Diesel Truck that has Hydroboost on it. The Hydroboost went **** up and it wasn't worth all the funds for a new HB unit, so I simply went to Pull A Part, paid $15 for a used but new looking booster bolted it in, used the same master and it worked like a champ. Guess I got lucky now that I see all these different ratios.

When I had a 55 Chevy sedan, I spent a lot of time on 55-57 forums. I'd guess >90% of those cars came from the factory with manual brakes, and the power brake option used an unusual booster/master combo called "treadle-vac". Anyway they are very hard, if not impossible to find, so most guys use aftermarket components.

One of the most common posts was guys having problems with their brand new aftermarket power brake kits not working as well as manual brakes. A lot of it had to do with the one-size-fits-all aftermarket kits. Typically the boosters were too small, sometimes even a single 7" diaphragm (!) and/or the MC bore too big. And then if you ever got the right combo (usually dual 9" booster and 1" MC) , the brakes would be grabby because of the manual brake pedal ratio. The fix there was to drill a pushrod hole lower on the brake pedal because the factory linkage was an afterthought and almost impossible to duplicate.

Also, using a kit's generic proportional valve to limit pressure to the rear brakes usually hurts performance. I always told guys to use a manual valve, which lets you reduce pressure ONLY if the rears lock-up prematurely.

Then there were the guys with big cams making only 10-12" vacuum at idle, which requires a HUGE amount of diaphragm area, but that's another story.

Treadle-Vac

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Tranz Zam

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BTW, all you guys providing all the Tech Data and info especially Keith... Great Job !!! Thanks for the addition. Reps will be added by me and probably end up making this a Sticky if I can clean it up a bit and re-title the thread.

I'm glad my confusion could be of service! :)

Seriously tho, the tech these guys posted is great! I'll try and get in the garage tomorrow and sort this disaster out.
 

Rusty Nail

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What happened to bleeding the master cylinder? Did I miss that part? That's where I was...then I was at wrong prop valve then I went to wrong wheel cylinder diameter, but check that master first, yo.

Glad I could help. :thumbsup:
 

shiftpro

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Good thread, nice work guys.
 

HotRodPC

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I'm glad my confusion could be of service! :)

Seriously tho, the tech these guys posted is great! I'll try and get in the garage tomorrow and sort this disaster out.

I don't know of any 1 complete expert on this site. Several of us seem to have an area of expertise so between all of us, we are experts. I like to think I know my ****, and I've learned on this forum. And this info here is a great example. I had no idea that brake master, brake booster and ratios made such a difference. Never knew there was ratio difference between Hydroboost and Vac Boost either. This is just one of many things I've learned.

So yes, we have some great guys on here and everyone's participation is appreciated. Even the questions including dumb questions. The questions are what generate the responses and technical data like this coming out into the open.

Good Job to all that participated. :cheers: I've given Rep credit to all those participants, and since I'm so special, I count as double credit just so all of you know.
 

Keith Seymore

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Thank you; I was a driveline development engineer at the GM Desert Proving Ground that got roped into brake development on these trucks, back in the C/K/R/V era.

K
 

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