1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

700r4 blown. Nv3500/4500 swap

Discussion in 'Manual Transmission & Clutch' started by guitarfreak235, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. roundhouse

    roundhouse Full Access Member

    Posts:
    669
    Likes Received:
    516
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    Location:
    atlanta ga
    First Name:
    justin
    Truck Year:
    77,78,79,80 ?
    Truck Model:
    K10
    Engine Size:
    350
    The 3500 in the S-10 won’t fit

    Think it has a differentbellhoising bolt pattern

    Also the pattern for the transfer case is different



    The 3500 is a 32 spline
    Needs a NP208 from behind a late 80s TH400 with the round bolt pattern

    The 208s came in figure eight bolt patterns with two or three different splines , and in circle bolt patterns with 27 or 32 splines

    When you’re shopping for one , do NOT trust the seller
    They will lie to sell it
    Count them yourself
    Or ask them to send you a good quality pic of the splines

    And get the crossmember support if you can

    And ask for a pic of the t case
    I’ve driven an hour to buy a 32 spline 208 and found the diphead seller had a NP205

    I would try to drive a 465 in someone’s truck before you swap one in

    They shift really slow and the ratios are way far apart

    I like the 3500
    It’s the closest you can get to a car transmission in a pickup

    I’ve had a stock 3 speed and T-18 in my bronco before the 3550 in my bronco

    And a 465 in the K10 before the 3500

    And there is a huge difference in drive-ability on the street for a daily driver
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    HotRodPC likes this.
  2. bucket

    bucket Super Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    39
    Posts:
    23,447
    Likes Received:
    10,072
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Location:
    Usually not in Ohio
    First Name:
    Andy
    Truck Year:
    '77, '78, '79, '84, '88
    Truck Model:
    K5 thru K30
    Engine Size:
    350-454
    The 208 used in GM trucks only came as a round pattern. It was introduced in '81. It's often overlooked that the round pattern 27/32 stuff came out that early because everyone's focus is always the K30 which didn't get anything round pattern until '85. Through '84, they retained the figure eight 205 with 10/32 splines.
     
    HotRodPC likes this.
  3. guitarfreak235

    guitarfreak235 Full Access Member

    Age:
    25
    Posts:
    638
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    Spartanburg S.C.
    First Name:
    Andrew
    Truck Year:
    86 86
    Truck Model:
    k10 c20
    Engine Size:
    350 350
    Lots of good info. I found a rebuilt 700r4 with a new torque converter for $300 and just snagged it. 20k on the rebuild so sounded like a good deal cuz tranny shops are all asking for 900 plus per rebuild.

    Im putting that in for now, and might just assemble the required parts for the manual swap when im not in a hurry

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
    HotRodPC likes this.
  4. HotRodPC

    HotRodPC Administrator Staff Member

    Posts:
    46,071
    Likes Received:
    6,573
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    OKC, OK
    First Name:
    HotRod
    Truck Year:
    85 K20 LWB / 86 K5
    Truck Model:
    Silverado / Silverado
    Engine Size:
    454 - Turbo 400 - 3.73 350 - 700R4 - 4.10
    SCORE !!! So long as it's really a good one, I'd certainly use it for now. Now that you have some ideas and know what to keep your eyes open for, then maybe beforre that one goes tits up you'll have acquired your parts for the conversion.
     
  5. mcarlo86

    mcarlo86 Full Access Member

    Posts:
    246
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Location:
    ND
    First Name:
    Brian
    Truck Year:
    1990
    Truck Model:
    Suburban
    Engine Size:
    350
    We are considering a NV4500 swap into our 90 V1500. I have a line on a good 4500 out of a 94 4X4 Chevy pickup. I also have a parts pickup '77 K20 with a 465 transmission in it. I'm wondering if the clutch pedals would work out of that pickup for the swap? I have seen that AA sells a NV4500 bellhousing for mechanical clutches so I wouldn't need the slave cylinder, master cylinder, etc. Has anyone had experience with one of those? I'm not positive on what t-case I have, but I think it is a 241? Would this t-case work with a NV4500? How about making it work with the factory cruise control?
     
  6. SDJunkMan

    SDJunkMan Full Access Member

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Location:
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    First Name:
    Jeff
    Truck Year:
    1978
    Truck Model:
    K10
    Engine Size:
    350
    I found a 96 with a 4500 in it for a good price, wondering what else I should get off it (pedal assembly, bellhousing, etc.), that I would need to swap it into my 78 K10 with a 465.
     
  7. SquareRoot

    SquareRoot Full Access Member

    Posts:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    1,863
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    First Name:
    Mike
    Truck Year:
    85
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    350
    Other than the trans not much else is going to swap over. T-case output is on the wrong side (IFS), bellhousing won't work without major mods and the pedal assembly is completely different.
    And...if you drain the oil and it's conventional gear oil, your going to need an overhaul to replace the carbon synchros.
    Save yourself the headache and get comfortable spending big$$ on the AA bellhousing and slave cylinder bracket. It's still worth it in the end.
     
  8. SDJunkMan

    SDJunkMan Full Access Member

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Location:
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    First Name:
    Jeff
    Truck Year:
    1978
    Truck Model:
    K10
    Engine Size:
    350
    Thanks Mike. I would have hated to left something on the truck and found out later that I needed it.

    I am wondering if I should pull the tranny and transfer case as a unit or can I split the transfer off first? I've never split one before, but I'm getting too old to be wrestling the pair if I don't have to, not to mention that I will have to split them eventually.
     
  9. Dutch Rutter

    Dutch Rutter Full Access Member

    Age:
    31
    Posts:
    889
    Likes Received:
    858
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Location:
    Independence, Or
    First Name:
    Joshua
    Truck Year:
    1984
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    5.7
    From everything I've read you can split them but expect to loose fluid out of both. Keep in mind the nv4500 fluid is very expensive and requires a certain type.

    Like squareroot said AA bellhousing will make it easier along with going to a hydro clutch. You can also bolt a np208 or np205 to it so long as you have a 32 spline input shaft. For the np208 youd need to change it to a 32 spline shaft. As for length, I dont know where the two trans compare. But the nv4500 is about the same length as a 700r4 and would not require moving the transfer case but I'm going to guess the sm465 is shorter and will need the case moved back, this usually means different drivelines.
     
  10. SquareRoot

    SquareRoot Full Access Member

    Posts:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    1,863
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    First Name:
    Mike
    Truck Year:
    85
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    350
    One of my 4500s came out of a 93 2500HD. It had a 241 case with a 32 spline input but you wouldn't be using that case anyway. My 85 that it's going into is a factory th400/208 setup with 32 splines as well. Either way, your t-case needs to be the round pattern. I don't know if there are short and long input shafts for the 208? My 205 had a long shaft that requires another....wait for it...AA adapter ring. It added 1 5/8" length to the setup. The 4500/205 setup is about 12 inches shorter overall than the 400/208 setup...a big difference. On my longbed, that means a 64" rear shaft or a two-piece setup.
    These are just things to be aware of.

    BTW, Summit sells the correct AC Delco fluid at about $18/quart. I recently bought a case (6) just to have it as it seems to be getting rare.

    What I DON'T know is how guys are converting to hydraulic clutch setups in the pre-85 squares as there are no factory pedal assemblies for those?

    I found it easier to split the trans from the t-case. They are very heavy especially with an iron 205! It's not difficult.
     
    bucket likes this.
  11. mcarlo86

    mcarlo86 Full Access Member

    Posts:
    246
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Location:
    ND
    First Name:
    Brian
    Truck Year:
    1990
    Truck Model:
    Suburban
    Engine Size:
    350
    Still wondering if anyone would know if the clutch pedals out of a 77 would work in my 90 burb on a 4500 swap using a mechanical clutch bellhousing from AA? Also wondering about cruise control since the 77 doesn’t have cruise? I thought I heard somewhere that there is a switch on the clutch pedal to disengage the cruise.
     
  12. Josh Helm

    Josh Helm Full Access Member

    Posts:
    154
    Likes Received:
    210
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Location:
    Mooers New York
    First Name:
    josh
    Truck Year:
    1982
    Truck Model:
    K1500
    Engine Size:
    5.7 vortec
    I have done the 3500 swap and love it ... minus needing to swap my ring gears now cause never use 5th under 80mph ... lol ...
     
  13. SDJunkMan

    SDJunkMan Full Access Member

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Location:
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    First Name:
    Jeff
    Truck Year:
    1978
    Truck Model:
    K10
    Engine Size:
    350
    I have to split it sooner or later as I will not be using the transfer case that is on it, so losing fluid is not a problem, just a potential mess to deal with.

    I will probably go with the AA bellhousing, although I saw a write-up that said that you could redrill a different bellhousing, but I can't remember where I saw it.

    As for the driveshaft, I will have to have a new one made, as I am replacing a 465. Unfortunatly my 205 has the wrong input shaft , a 10 spline I think.
     
  14. Dutch Rutter

    Dutch Rutter Full Access Member

    Age:
    31
    Posts:
    889
    Likes Received:
    858
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Location:
    Independence, Or
    First Name:
    Joshua
    Truck Year:
    1984
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    5.7
    I do believe that you can replace the input shaft on a np205. I know it is doable on the np208 so I would expect it can be done. As for mechanical to hydro.... Since I'm preparing to do this one day I picked up a set of pedals for a hydro clutch truck on ebay. But that won't help much for the older trucks, I dont think.

    here are a few links I saved a while ago for the clutch conversion

    https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/upgrading-your-square-with-a-hydraulic-clutch.6589/

    https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/clutch/kit-hcr3/kit-hcrc
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  15. SquareRoot

    SquareRoot Full Access Member

    Posts:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    1,863
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    First Name:
    Mike
    Truck Year:
    85
    Truck Model:
    K20
    Engine Size:
    350
    But th
    I'm quite sure your 205 is the figure 8 pattern? You need the later 6 bolt round pattern 205. That's a much bigger issue than the input shaft. Or consider a round pattern 208.
     
    bucket likes this.

Share This Page