14 bolt rear hub seal advice

[Coal creek Chris]

Replacing rear drum brakes on an 89 V3500 dually which failed early due to gear oil plus brake fluid soaked shoes. Also replacing leaking wheel cylinders. I've read about these "improved" two part seals that can work better than the fixed seals. Any advice on whether the two part seal is worth it? This is the second rear gear oil issue in a short time so also looking for advice on what to look for on the spindle where the seal rides or if maybe the hub is wobbling/too much runout? Want to avoid soaking/ruining another set of shoes. If it matters, this truck is being used for work and hauling that involves periodic off-road use with loads plus mountain/canyon driving on-road.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Replacing rear drum brakes on an 89 V3500 dually which failed early due to gear oil plus brake fluid soaked shoes. Also replacing leaking wheel cylinders. I've read about these "improved" two part seals that can work better than the fixed seals. Any advice on whether the two part seal is worth it? This is the second rear gear oil issue in a short time so also looking for advice on what to look for on the spindle where the seal rides or if maybe the hub is wobbling/too much runout? Want to avoid soaking/ruining another set of shoes. If it matters, this truck is being used for work and hauling that involves periodic off-road use with loads plus mountain/canyon driving on-road.

The two part seals are mainly used when the spindle has a groove wore in it. Otherwise you have to be careful sliding the hubs over the spindle, you can damage the seal on reassembly pretty easy. The two part seals are pretty slick really, most of em move the seal past the groove on the spindle, and the seal spins and seals against itself. It should be a last resort though IMO, although I would choose it over a speedy sleeve, and a few other options so maybe not a last last resort.

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Thank you for the advice, very helpful. Sounds like I should use the regular seal unless I have a spindle groove. What does the groove typically look like and how wide is it usually?

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Thank you for the advice, very helpful. Sounds like I should use the regular seal unless I have a spindle groove. What does the groove typically look like and how wide is it usually?

Sometimes it's hard to tell, just clean the area up real well on the sealing surface and you should be able to tell. It's usually a millimeter or or less wide, it will reflect light differently than the good surfaces, it's usually more shiny. You can sometimes feel it.

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Not sure I'm looking in the right place but nothing is standing out as a groove. I have new AC Delco seals that have a metal side and a plastic coated side. A novice question, but which side goes in which way? Metal towards the bearing or metal facing outward? Is there a way to tell which direction to install the new seal?

The hardest part of this job is that there is so little working space to access bolts between the leaf spring and the backing plate. Almost wondered if I should separate the axle from the springs, drop the axle and then do the work. Finally got the wheel cylinder bolts in, but it was a pain in the neck.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Your seal should look basically like this without the out lip because this is a transfer case seal, some hub seals have lips, also this seal is slightly different in design but same principle. I also included a picture of a transfer case yoke that has a groove that would look exactly the same on a spindle, in the center of the sealing surface.

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[PrairieDrifter]

If you can post a pic of your seal I can tell you which side is which

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Once I got the old seal out, the direction became apparent. It looks like the seal side where the rubber extends to and past the metal should face outward and the seal side with a gap between the rubber and the metal portion of the seal should face towards the bearing. Posted pics and a spindle photo. Seems like I should check for a groove at the inward-most area of the spindle where it is clean/shiny and the red arrow is pointing? Let me know what you think.

Photo of seal side that should face towards the bearing?

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Spindle photo

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[PrairieDrifter]

Once I got the old seal out, the direction became apparent. It looks like the seal side where the rubber extends to and past the metal should face outward and the seal side with a gap between the rubber and the metal portion of the seal should face towards the bearing. Posted pics and a spindle photo. Seems like I should check for a groove at the inward-most area of the spindle where it is clean/shiny and the red arrow is pointing? Let me know what you think.

Photo of seal side that should face towards the bearing?

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Spindle photo

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Actually I believe the side that is facing up, is the side that should be facing the axle not the bearing. If possible could you get a pic of the other side of the seal?

As for the spindle I believe it should be right behind that black ring on the inner spindle. I can't really tell what's what in that picture.

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Suppose its possible that the other seal was put in backwards but the first picture seemed to match how the old seal was installed. Also, if I installed it with the side in the first pic facing outward, it looks like the seal would catch and collect all sorts of brake dust/grit etc since there is this blank space and doesn't look like it would seal well to the spindle to keep junk out of itself.

The other side of the seal is below. This side has a rubber lip that sticks up slightly above the metal frame of the seal. There is also an inner lip with the lines shown on it.

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[PrairieDrifter]

Suppose its possible that the other seal was put in backwards but the first picture seemed to match how the old seal was installed. Also, if I installed it with the side in the first pic facing outward, it looks like the seal would catch and collect all sorts of brake dust/grit etc since there is this blank space and doesn't look like it would seal well to the spindle to keep junk out of itself.

The other side of the seal is below. This side has a rubber lip that sticks up slightly above the metal frame of the seal. There is also an inner lip with the lines shown on it.

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I am pretty sure that this is the correct way. This side should be visible, while the side in the first pic should be facing the inside of the hub.

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Ok, thanks for the help. Just so I'm clear, you think the first pic should face inward toward the bearing? Seems like this would also let the seal collect some gear oil which I'd guess would help keep the bearing lubricated.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Ok, thanks for the help. Just so I'm clear, you think the first pic should face inward toward the bearing? Seems like this would also let the seal collect some gear oil which I'd guess would help keep the bearing lubricated.

Yes sir. The first picture seal side face should touch the bearing while the second picture side should be facing the pumpkin of the axle.

 

[Coal creek Chris]

Thanks for the assistance. Got the seal in and the hub all back together. Now onto the other side.

 

[Curt]

I like timken or national seals myself.Next time you put a new seal in the hub,run your fingernail over that spindle where the seal rides.If your nails catches anything or you see any wear,you can adjust the depth slightly on how far you drive the seal in the hub.

You have a backing plate for drums on yours,but it should look like this.Also,I fill the seal cavity with grease.Make sure spindle is clean and the lip of the seal is lubed with grease or gear oil.

In my humble opinion,that axle doesn’t need synthetic oil.Regular 80-90wt will work.And lastly,make sure the axle vent tube and breather is clear and functional.A lot of gear boxes leak because the gas caused by heat can’t escape

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