Starter dropping out early?

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Girth

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Correct, not a CUCV. Just a cute little C10 I picked up for next to nothing, to be my new daily driver. :) Of course I've spent the $2500 purchase price all over again, in the month since I've owned it. lol

I'll look into a new relay/solenoid. True..... a newer one, meant to power the gear reduction that came in the trucks latter on, that might be better. I think I read the direct drive was standard until '88 on the 6.2? Dunno... I'll scrounge.

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Girth

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So that was an event. Some head scratching, and an interruption when a kid I work with dropped in so I could help him bang some SERIOUSLY stuck u-joints out of his Jeep axles. I MUST be getting old. Crawling under the truck hurts more, and the kids I work with marvel at all the tools I own. lol

For now, truck starts right up. Those mounting bolts though? Curious. Might have to source some actual GM ones, or these might work just fine. I'll keep a wrench in the truck and keep an eye on them for now.

Didn't see any flex plate teeth chewed on, all the TC bolts are in there, and the trans case is tight to the block all the way around. No obvious issues, so that's good.

The direct drive starter that was in there was a Carquest reman.... not super surprising it gave up the ghost. Looks like it was put on without replacing the bolts. Old bolts had a flanged/washer head style to them. The new ones I got from Oreilly's did NOT, although there is that little flat boss where the shank meets the head, so the points don't dig in. Still..... not super happy about the lack of a washer feature. Comparing the old bolts to the new though, they had the same grip length. Adding a washer to these would mean less thread engagement. Also not a fan of that. For now..... torqued them up and gonna run it.

In my googling, some bolts had the flanged head, some parts manuals show a bolt and washer, apparently there is an old TSB out there about shimming and using bolts and washer, with "Starter drive end housing PNs 10496542 or 10496538" and lists bolts 15544950 with washer PN 22521054. Shims being GM 23500396. Lots of warnings not to use slotted shims.

Dug the old brace out of the glove box and put it on. Fit just fine, and now that it's installed, the heat shield is fully secured again. (Bolt that holds the brace to the block also clamps down the heat shield) The solenoid on this starter, well OF COURSE the way the wires were hooked to the old one, they didn't want to play nice shifting positions on this new one. Seems to always be the case.

I was bad though.... didn't check the shimming real well. :rolleyes: Eyeballed it, and then just listened when I started the truck. Sounds right. lol All these new starters have "NO SHIM" cast right into them, but some say you still have to.

Anyways.... truck is running again. I'm sorta happy. More work to do later. lol

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AuroraGirl

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So that was an event. Some head scratching, and an interruption when a kid I work with dropped in so I could help him bang some SERIOUSLY stuck u-joints out of his Jeep axles. I MUST be getting old. Crawling under the truck hurts more, and the kids I work with marvel at all the tools I own. lol

For now, truck starts right up. Those mounting bolts though? Curious. Might have to source some actual GM ones, or these might work just fine. I'll keep a wrench in the truck and keep an eye on them for now.

Didn't see any flex plate teeth chewed on, all the TC bolts are in there, and the trans case is tight to the block all the way around. No obvious issues, so that's good.

The direct drive starter that was in there was a Carquest reman.... not super surprising it gave up the ghost. Looks like it was put on without replacing the bolts. Old bolts had a flanged/washer head style to them. The new ones I got from Oreilly's did NOT, although there is that little flat boss where the shank meets the head, so the points don't dig in. Still..... not super happy about the lack of a washer feature. Comparing the old bolts to the new though, they had the same grip length. Adding a washer to these would mean less thread engagement. Also not a fan of that. For now..... torqued them up and gonna run it.

In my googling, some bolts had the flanged head, some parts manuals show a bolt and washer, apparently there is an old TSB out there about shimming and using bolts and washer, with "Starter drive end housing PNs 10496542 or 10496538" and lists bolts 15544950 with washer PN 22521054. Shims being GM 23500396. Lots of warnings not to use slotted shims.

Dug the old brace out of the glove box and put it on. Fit just fine, and now that it's installed, the heat shield is fully secured again. (Bolt that holds the brace to the block also clamps down the heat shield) The solenoid on this starter, well OF COURSE the way the wires were hooked to the old one, they didn't want to play nice shifting positions on this new one. Seems to always be the case.

I was bad though.... didn't check the shimming real well. :rolleyes: Eyeballed it, and then just listened when I started the truck. Sounds right. lol All these new starters have "NO SHIM" cast right into them, but some say you still have to.

Anyways.... truck is running again. I'm sorta happy. More work to do later. lol

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if it said not to SHIM, then the new GM bolts (if the GM are also without a flange head, then the oreillies ones are probably copies of that.) I would get them ASAP since they are cheap. If they have no flange, then use the those bolts. It sounds like the block you maybe have a reman or later engine or you just got lucky (which does happen) dont use a shim on a no shim housing unless in an old block, if you think you ever need to shim, FIND the block age. If its newer, you dont need to shim you need a better starter and bolts
 

Girth

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if it said not to SHIM, then the new GM bolts (if the GM are also without a flange head, then the oreillies ones are probably copies of that.) I would get them ASAP since they are cheap. If they have no flange, then use the those bolts. It sounds like the block you maybe have a reman or later engine or you just got lucky (which does happen) dont use a shim on a no shim housing unless in an old block, if you think you ever need to shim, FIND the block age. If its newer, you dont need to shim you need a better starter and bolts

All the new starter housings seem to say "NO SHIM", but supposedly there's an old GM bulletin (85-197? no idea how to find that for real) that says you still might need to shim, even with the new housings. It supposedly also lists this PN bolt (15544950) with washers...... but searching this PN shows lots of new bolts withOUT the flanged head, and now and then, some WITH a flanged head. :rolleyes:

It's all a bit confusing.... but that's sourcing replacement parts for anything older I guess. I had to explain to the guy at the Napa warehouse what brake rotors I wanted, since his books didn't say and he had no idea what the deal with the different heights was. lol

I'm gonna call the local dealer's parts department next week, see if they still track these, and what their books show. Beyond that, it's a truck. Probably overthinking it. lol If they bolts stay tight and everything stays intact..... good enough. I'd be EXTRA happy if the bolts had drilled heads, and I could just safety wire them. lol They'd never work loose then.
 

HotWheelsBurban

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All the new starter housings seem to say "NO SHIM", but supposedly there's an old GM bulletin (85-197? no idea how to find that for real) that says you still might need to shim, even with the new housings. It supposedly also lists this PN bolt (15544950) with washers...... but searching this PN shows lots of new bolts withOUT the flanged head, and now and then, some WITH a flanged head. :rolleyes:

It's all a bit confusing.... but that's sourcing replacement parts for anything older I guess. I had to explain to the guy at the Napa warehouse what brake rotors I wanted, since his books didn't say and he had no idea what the deal with the different heights was. lol

I'm gonna call the local dealer's parts department next week, see if they still track these, and what their books show. Beyond that, it's a truck. Probably overthinking it. lol If they bolts stay tight and everything stays intact..... good enough. I'd be EXTRA happy if the bolts had drilled heads, and I could just safety wire them. lol They'd never work loose then.
Do you have a GM dealer parts department near you? If so, I'd see if they have or can get those starter bolts. I sourced a pair of bolts there when I replaced the starter on my crew cab 5.7. The new bolts looked like the old ones, but they have the correct (for my application) shoulder and double knurling, and the washered heads. And they're not stretched like the old ones might be....
I was going from the first generation small(straight case, no stepdown) starter, to a gear reduction unit because that's what the store had(and no time to order anything different) and I wasn't sure if the bolts were different. And the Irish parts store didn't have but one bolt...that didn't look right anyway.
I kept the old unit (original to the truck I'm sure) and will have it rebuilt at a later time.
 

Girth

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Do you have a GM dealer parts department near you? If so, I'd see if they have or can get those starter bolts. I sourced a pair of bolts there when I replaced the starter on my crew cab 5.7. The new bolts looked like the old ones, but they have the correct (for my application) shoulder and double knurling, and the washered heads. And they're not stretched like the old ones might be....
I was going from the first generation small(straight case, no stepdown) starter, to a gear reduction unit because that's what the store had(and no time to order anything different) and I wasn't sure if the bolts were different. And the Irish parts store didn't have but one bolt...that didn't look right anyway.
I kept the old unit (original to the truck I'm sure) and will have it rebuilt at a later time.
There's a dealer 5 miles from work. I'll give them a call next week and see what they say.

Just happy to have it running again for now. At least I can MOVE it. lol A little trippy though, that gear reduction DOES sound different from that slow (and probably worn out/poorly rebuilt) direct drive.
 

AuroraGirl

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All the new starter housings seem to say "NO SHIM", but supposedly there's an old GM bulletin (85-197? no idea how to find that for real) that says you still might need to shim, even with the new housings. It supposedly also lists this PN bolt (15544950) with washers...... but searching this PN shows lots of new bolts withOUT the flanged head, and now and then, some WITH a flanged head. :rolleyes:

It's all a bit confusing.... but that's sourcing replacement parts for anything older I guess. I had to explain to the guy at the Napa warehouse what brake rotors I wanted, since his books didn't say and he had no idea what the deal with the different heights was. lol

I'm gonna call the local dealer's parts department next week, see if they still track these, and what their books show. Beyond that, it's a truck. Probably overthinking it. lol If they bolts stay tight and everything stays intact..... good enough. I'd be EXTRA happy if the bolts had drilled heads, and I could just safety wire them. lol They'd never work loose then.
im guessing they updated the bolt design, i wouldnt worry about it. Especially if the housing is fairly close to the head all around. The bulletin , which I sent Delco-Remy's version of the bulletin[they are the OEM] said that too. If you want, call their service line and see if you can get someone who can verify that about the bolts. Im guessing the housings are remans not someone making them new. so the housing is good. And thats why I said if you dont think you need shims, its fine, but if you do, then best to look at your block date.If you have a truly 82 block, and it needs shims, then it needs shims.
 

HotWheelsBurban

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There's a dealer 5 miles from work. I'll give them a call next week and see what they say.

Just happy to have it running again for now. At least I can MOVE it. lol A little trippy though, that gear reduction DOES sound different from that slow (and probably worn out/poorly rebuilt) direct drive.
They do sound different, took me a while to get used to it!
 

AuroraGirl

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There's a dealer 5 miles from work. I'll give them a call next week and see what they say.

Just happy to have it running again for now. At least I can MOVE it. lol A little trippy though, that gear reduction DOES sound different from that slow (and probably worn out/poorly rebuilt) direct drive.
the reason im leaning toward you having a later 6.2 block is the fact you had the bracket for a PMGR starter (stock ~88+ you said) and the starter on it wasnt original. And that tells me the person likely had the bracket, on their starter, had a different design but thought nothing of it, and put the wrong one on unintentionally and kept the bracket THANKFULLY because you NEED it.
 

Girth

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the reason im leaning toward you having a later 6.2 block is the fact you had the bracket for a PMGR starter (stock ~88+ you said) and the starter on it wasnt original. And that tells me the person likely had the bracket, on their starter, had a different design but thought nothing of it, and put the wrong one on unintentionally and kept the bracket THANKFULLY because you NEED it.
Eh.... I thought of that, but dismissed it. The previous owner bought it from an old man who apparently LOVED these diesel pickups, and owned several. Maybe he preferred the gear reduction starters? Maybe the brackets aren't THAT different? (I read they were, but looking at the stud location, I'd bet I could make it work) Then the big one..... over 40yrs, who the hell knows.

The engine in there has obviously sat in that hole for a WHILE. Out of curiosity though, I'll see if I can date it.
 

AuroraGirl

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Eh.... I thought of that, but dismissed it. The previous owner bought it from an old man who apparently LOVED these diesel pickups, and owned several. Maybe he preferred the gear reduction starters? Maybe the brackets aren't THAT different? (I read they were, but looking at the stud location, I'd bet I could make it work) Then the big one..... over 40yrs, who the hell knows.

The engine in there has obviously sat in that hole for a WHILE. Out of curiosity though, I'll see if I can date it.
so the starter that was on it when you got it.. was... a PMGR starter? or direct?
 

Girth

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so the starter that was on it when you got it.. was... a PMGR starter? or direct?
It had a direct drive, reman from Carquest on it. Noticed that housing was also cast “no shim” and there were no shims installed. Bolts were as pictured above.
 

AuroraGirl

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It had a direct drive, reman from Carquest on it. Noticed that housing was also cast “no shim” and there were no shims installed. Bolts were as pictured above.
and the bracket did not fit it correct
 

Girth

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and the bracket did not fit it correct
Unknown. Previous owner didn’t install it for whatever reason. Just glancing at the stud location on the old starter, I suspect it might have worked. It bolted up to the new starter just fine though.
 

AuroraGirl

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Unknown. Previous owner didn’t install it for whatever reason. Just glancing at the stud location on the old starter, I suspect it might have worked. It bolted up to the new starter just fine though.
which is now a gear reduction? sounds to me the braces were not the same between them
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which means someone either went through the trouble of sourcing the bracket before or the engine came with one, all the more reasons to make me think that this requires the utmost attention in case an issue were to happen
 

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