no end play th350

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crazy4offroad

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I would get a few different thicknesses, since you have no endplay you could end up still not getting in the zone you want with 0.030". Maybe get an 0.020 and 0.010 3-tang, and 0.010 and 0.005 shim that way you have some adjustability.
 

tkbp4him

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I found in the book page 139 it says under preliminary front end play ck....that "It is controlled by the thickness of the selective thrust washer or bearing and shims that install (between the oil pump and direct-clutch hub). Does this mean I cant replace a three or four tang thrush washer behind the forward clutch say on the planetary gear to get end play? Can you only do it between what the book says and get it their? Ive tried under the pump with no results though of end play at all already. Only place I get it is when i remove thrush washer at planetary gear area.
 

MrMarty51

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Try installing the original shims in the pump, or wherever they go and see if that helps any, or, try removing all the shims and see if there is any end play at all.
 

tkbp4him

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Ok I'll try that see what happens. I'm not going to try one of the orignal plastic thrush washers due to fact that it is definitly melted and plastic. I replaced it with the same thickness metal thrush washer. I am going to see if I can get some varity of washers to try that are three or four tanged and thinner than .061.. that will give me some end play I know for a fact.
 

HotRodPC

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Clutches and steels will NOT affect end play. But you do measure those separately to make sure you have the right clutch clearance. I usually eyeball those. If you put the same amount in, unless you making a change for a reason, like for a Z pack or Commercail Alto Pack in a 3/4 pack for the 700r4, then you follow their recommendations in that scenario.
The only selective thrust washers I'm aware of, is the one at the back of the case on a Th400, and the the shims on the front pump of a Th350. You measure the end play on the front input shaft. Push the input shaft in as far as you can, then measure with a dial indicator how much you can pull it out. OR push the shaft in as far as you can. Clamp a Vise Grip onto the input shaft up tight as you can get it to the pump shaft. Then pull the input shaft out as far as you can, then measure the distance between the Vise Grip and the pump shaft with a feeler gauge. That will tell you what your end play is. I also rarely measure that. I can usually tell if it's right by pushing it in and out. The big reason you want to check end play is for #1 to make sure you didn't leave out any thrust washers and #2, to make sure you assembled it right and got all the clutches clocked right and fitting the ring and sun gears properly. If there's no end play then the input shaft probably won't turn at all cuz you'd have it all bound up when you tightened the pump. If you're sure you've got it together right, I'm about 99% sure you've got it right. I don't recall ever having an end play problem when I used the right parts and I've also interchanged drums and thrust washers types, and from thrust washers to torrington bearings etc.
 

tkbp4him

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I don't know....I was gona try getting thinner thrush washers for either the front planet or the carrier gear that goes on top of the planet gears , ( the four tang or three tang) but after today asking a trans shop about that they said they only come in .061 thick size and that I had something else wrong somewhere. So I spent the evening taking it apart and putting together again down to the clip on the output shaft part and still no diffence. Is there any way the output shaft and the parts below the quarter size clip on the output shaft could not be down in bottom of trans all the way making the input shaft sit higher taking up the end play space I need? I thought the clip being on and the other clip and case saver below would not go on if it were not down in the right place. maybe Ill have a dream about it with the anwser like a light bulb hit me in the middle of the night. Sounds like I won't get any sleep....rrrrr
 

HotRodPC

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I found in the book page 139 it says under preliminary front end play ck....that "It is controlled by the thickness of the selective thrust washer or bearing and shims that install (between the oil pump and direct-clutch hub). Does this mean I cant replace a three or four tang thrush washer behind the forward clutch say on the planetary gear to get end play? Can you only do it between what the book says and get it their? Ive tried under the pump with no results though of end play at all already. Only place I get it is when i remove thrush washer at planetary gear area.

No, it's exactly what it says. You have a selective thrust washer or shims that go behind the torrington bearing that ride on the front pump or a selective thrust washer.

This is the direct clutch hub. This is where the bearing or thrust washer will ride. On the furthest front of the direct drum.
attachment.php


This is the front pump SELECTIVE thrust washer type. Now you might have the type that uses a Torrington bearing with SELECTIVE shims behind it in the same location.
attachment.php
 

tkbp4him

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Hey, thanks for the help with the photo's "hot rod pc"....I have tried what your showing here already with no end play result with thrush washer or with shim and bearing and with nothing under pump and I still have no end play. I have run out of patience with it and I'm taking it to this guy Ralph Ross of Ross Brothers trans here in town who I have been to for bushing and advice to this point in which he said for me to bring it in for him to look at. I'm going to take him up on his offer due to amount of time I have in this project already....I need to end soon due to other jobs I have to do and winter is coming and I don't work below 32 degrees....thanks
 

HotRodPC

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No Problem. Those pics came from my Th350 Build Thread. If you haven't looked it over, my might do that to see if you're missing something or putting to much in it.
http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1045

Good to get that 2nd opinion. I have a feeling you're going to find it's either just fine, OR you're not getting the forward clutches clocked all the way back into the sunshell and the direct drum lugs into the sunshell.

So when you get this together and measuring for end play, have you tried to turn the input shaft with some channelocks or pliers? And does it turn with some heavy resistance? As said before, if you have a mean grip you can turn it by hand, but most can't and need to use pliers. I'd just about be willing to say, if the input shaft turns with reasonable resistance as normal, then it's all good.

Be sure to post back what you find out.
 

tkbp4him

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Ok, got the anwsers.....ready? They installed my bushings for me and they put one in wrong...is what they said was causing me not to get end play. The bushing in the direct clutch was not in far enough which was pinching the pump causing me not to get the end play at all they said. All I know is that when I got it back from them I took a reading and got right .025 which is awesome. Finally I can move on to valve body. At least they didn't charge me and I was not losing my mind yet at least. So the moral of the story is if you replace bushings or have someone do it for you and you don't get any end play and you tried everything else....check bushing placement real close because it matters and can give you a no end play issue.
 

HotRodPC

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They shouldn't have charged you if they put them in and did it wrong. I'da been pist. You pay someone do part of it that you can't or don't want to do it and they do it wrong??? Had I know you had all the bushings changed I'da suggested that. but the common bushings shouldn't affect end play. That drum bushing you're talking about gets very little wear. I don't recall ever seeing one down to the babbit at all. I have replaced them before though. You can have a sprag come apart and its peices will ride there in that area and chew that bushing and take chunks out of it.
 

MrMarty51

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Well, at least now You know it was`nt something that You did wrong. Just plain O~L sucks to put in that much time trying to get it figured out.
If I`d a wanted a half assed job done, I could a done it Myself. LOL
 

teamssc

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Follow up to TKBP4him's post (as he was doing the trany for me). It went in 2 Saturday's ago and the 4WD transfer case went in this Saturday and it..... DRIVES! Rock and roll! Thanks Tony (TKBP4him)!!!! :winner_third_h4h:

So I started another thread about a small leak we have and we can see if anyone has ideas on that over there.
 

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