My daily driver has me stumped--No start/Slow start issue

[OldBlueDually]

@Bextreme04 Now that is crazy, all that failure!!! Also I suppose what I could do is yank the starter off and bench test it myself too, just to watch the gear kick out & spin...

Honestly, I am really thinking it is the starter, but the thing that makes think it is not is my old one makes this same exact "click" sound--and I think to myself "what are the chances of this new starter being junk". After reading your above post here I say its a damned good chance of being junk!

I suppose what I could do is get one from Napa or another place and try it out.

 

[Bextreme04]

@Bextreme04 Now that is crazy, all that failure!!! Also I suppose what I could do is yank the starter off and bench test it myself too, just to watch the gear kick out & spin...

Honestly, I am really thinking it is the starter, but the thing that makes think it is not is my old one makes this same exact "click" sound--and I think to myself "what are the chances of this new starter being junk". After reading your above post here I say its a damned good chance of being junk!

I suppose what I could do is get one from Napa or another place and try it out.

The problem is that they all get their junk from the same place. The only difference might be the box they drop it in and the amount of quality control they might(or might not) do before dropping the item in the box.

Voltage drop tests should tell you right away if it is a circuit problem. Do those tests. If you have less than 1 volt drop on all the ground and power wires, and a solid 12.4 or more at the starter itself, it is definitely the starter.

 

[OldBlueDually]

The problem is that they all get their junk from the same place. The only difference might be the box they drop it in and the amount of quality control they might(or might not) do before dropping the item in the box.

Voltage drop tests should tell you right away if it is a circuit problem. Do those tests. If you have less than 1 volt drop on all the ground and power wires, and a solid 12.4 or more at the starter itself, it is definitely the starter.

Will do, just as you also stated on the first page. I plan to work on it tonight, so that will be the first thing to do.

 

[Grit dog]

New/remaufactured = Plug and play.

Used/rebuilt = Plug and Pray

I'd say new/rebuilt (actual quality rebuild from a good shop) = Plug n play
Used/reman = plug and pRay

OBD, yard that reman out and go get another one. If it's getting hot, then it means the "rest" of the car is doing what it's supposed to and sending alot of power to the starter when you turn the key.

After experiencing junk reman parts over the last however many years, that would be my first diagnosis, a defective reman part.

Went through three alternators replacing a month old reman in a Napa parking lot a couple years ago. Well actually only 2 new reman, but I had to modify the first one to get me home because the second one literally had bad bearings and tossed the belt and the pulley wobbled!
First one (which was the second, since the first first one lasted only a month) had been dropped on it's head and one of the bolt holes was egg shaped. After the second (or third depending which ones you count) was not even useable, the Napa lady gave me a drill and a 3/8 bit and I drilled out the mounting hole on the sidewalk in front of the store. They only had 2 in stock and it was Sun afternoon and we were still in Canada, lol.
Wont go into detail on how I got so proficient at replacing reman junk hydroboost pumps on our old Dodge Diesel, but after the 3rd or 4th one made it about 3000miles and puked its guts out, I dropped the $600 on a brand new, new style pump and reservoir and didn't touch it again for the next 80k miles before we sold it.

When our son's low mile Mustang had a bad diode in the alternator a couple years ago, I didn't even mess with a parts store reman, and "new" high capacity alts were like $300. Took it to an actual rebuilder (one advantage of living in an industrial city) and $75 later it came back with new diodes, new bearings (just because) and has worked great for 2 years now.

 

[OldBlueDually]

I'd say new/rebuilt (actual quality rebuild from a good shop) = Plug n play
Used/reman = plug and pRay

OBD, yard that reman out and go get another one. If it's getting hot, then it means the "rest" of the car is doing what it's supposed to and sending alot of power to the starter when you turn the key.

After experiencing junk reman parts over the last however many years, that would be my first diagnosis, a defective reman part.

Went through three alternators replacing a month old reman in a Napa parking lot a couple years ago. Well actually only 2 new reman, but I had to modify the first one to get me home because the second one literally had bad bearings and tossed the belt and the pulley wobbled!
First one (which was the second, since the first first one lasted only a month) had been dropped on it's head and one of the bolt holes was egg shaped. After the second (or third depending which ones you count) was not even useable, the Napa lady gave me a drill and a 3/8 bit and I drilled out the mounting hole on the sidewalk in front of the store. They only had 2 in stock and it was Sun afternoon and we were still in Canada, lol.
Wont go into detail on how I got so proficient at replacing reman junk hydroboost pumps on our old Dodge Diesel, but after the 3rd or 4th one made it about 3000miles and puked its guts out, I dropped the $600 on a brand new, new style pump and reservoir and didn't touch it again for the next 80k miles before we sold it.

When our son's low mile Mustang had a bad diode in the alternator a couple years ago, I didn't even mess with a parts store reman, and "new" high capacity alts were like $300. Took it to an actual rebuilder (one advantage of living in an industrial city) and $75 later it came back with new diodes, new bearings (just because) and has worked great for 2 years now.

Yup, hot it got! That was after tinkering for about 5'ish some minutes....then we let it rest a minute or two, tried again. So the first 5 minutes, I would turn it to start and hear that click....let it sit a few seconds, hit it again & hear click....did this over and over. Reached down to feel the solenoid and it was hot to the touch.

What you went through does NOT sound fun with the alternators, nor the hydroboost!

On my 99 GMC Sierra Classic (you know....the square body style ) I went through around 4 starters in a 3 year period, it was unreal. It has the stupid little gear reduction fast spinning starter or whatever it is called. Another one went out and I said screw it, I went old fashioned and put the heavy 864 pound big bertha starter on it. Sounds different when it cranks compared to the mini starter gizmo it had, but it works and it starts!

 

[Bennyt]

Finding quality cable is the fun part.

ceautoelectricsupply.com

Worth your time just to click on cable builder for future use.
Best quality, very reasonable pricing, 1-2 day shipping. Literally built by the guy that wrote the book on auto electronics. I will never buy an off the shelf cable again.

 

[Octane]

The curse of driving old stuff.... I went thru 3 alternators on mine. Each one had noisy as crap bearings in them. This is the reason I dont drive my truck much... junk rebuilt parts.

 

[OldBlueDually]

The curse of driving old stuff.... I went thru 3 alternators on mine. Each one had noisy as crap bearings in them. This is the reason I dont drive my truck much... junk rebuilt parts.

Story of my life. I feel like I am becoming my dad (NOT that that is bad either BTW!!!), but he always drove old stuff, he kept it going, he never bought anything new. I'm glad he taught me a lot, but crap with computers and all this other jazz is not easy to work on. Heck I come here for info & advice because some of this stuff just stumps me, and some of it is simple!

Anyhow, after I work some more on it tonight I can post up my findings. I am leaning towards junk starter...will run that voltage test first though.

 

[WP29P4A]

I got an upgraded 97 amp alternator for my square from O-reilly. It was bad out of the box. Took it back and made sure they ran the next one they gave me to replace it through their tester before I would take it out of the store. It failed. They ran a third one(last one they had on the shelf) and it also failed. I told them I would take the third one just in case it was a problem with their tester while they ordered in more alternators. I put that one in and it worked for about 6 hours(kind of) before completely giving out. I took it back in and they had gotten two more alternators in overnight. They ran both of those through the tester and only one of them tested good. I took that one and put it in and it worked great for about 3 months, before just dying on me while I was out in the boonies hunting. Thankfully I have dual high AH batteries and was able to drive it all the way home about 1-1/2 hours and pull it. Took it in and sure enough, tested bad. They then pulled one off the shelf and it tested good. I put it in and it has been hanging on for about a month now just fine.

TLDR: Oreilly has a lot of Chinese "rebuilt" electrical components like starters and alternators that are complete junk right off the shelf. Always have them run it through their tester before you even leave the building with it.

I thought I was one of the few that had "Bad Luck" with rebuilt/reman products. I realize after spending some time on this site that my experiences are more common than I thought. Before I stopped buying rebuilt parts in the 80's I went through a couple experiences like @Grit dog. It was so bad I would drive the vehicle to the auto parts store, pull the carb or alternator in their parking lot, take the hot fresh "core" into the store and buy a rebuild, install the rebuilt unit into the 1974 Beauville and if it worked, good deal. If it didn't work I would take it right back into the store and swap it again, until I got one that worked.

From what I have read, it was implied that a "rebuild" was a used starter (or whatever) was taken apart, cleaned, bad parts replaced, reassembled and boxed for sale. A "remanufactured" unit was taken apart, cleaned, all parts brought back to factory spec or replaced it needed, reassembled and boxed for sale. Is this correct?

 

[WP29P4A]

No one else asked so I have to. Whats up with the strut tower cover/mount only having two bolts?

 

[Bennyt]

No one else asked so I have to. Whats up with the strut tower cover/mount only having two bolts?

You're thinking of the regular Taurus...this is the hipo model where Ford lightened it up to increase performance. You need to keep that on the down low in case the commies are listening in.

 

[OldBlueDually]

No one else asked so I have to. Whats up with the strut tower cover/mount only having two bolts?

You got me to look!!! There is another bolt you can see int he picture...just ever so slightly. Rubber hose going past it covers most of it up.

The problem is that they all get their junk from the same place. The only difference might be the box they drop it in and the amount of quality control they might(or might not) do before dropping the item in the box.

Voltage drop tests should tell you right away if it is a circuit problem. Do those tests. If you have less than 1 volt drop on all the ground and power wires, and a solid 12.4 or more at the starter itself, it is definitely the starter.

Ok, so I put my voltmeter on the battery. It read a solid 12.3 volts (this is after I tried to start it again so it drained so slighty). I put the voltmeter now down to the starter & neg. meter to neg on battery, I had a solid 12.3 volts at the starter.

So I had my daughter get in the car and I hooked my neg. meter to neg. on battery, hooked the pos. on voltmeter to starter pos.....still read solid 12.3 volts. When I told her to start it, the solenoid kicked in and the voltmeter went to 11.3 volts and stayed there. Then I told her to let off.

 

[OldBlueDually]

Car is jacked up now, so I did a couple more things: Old fashioned "jump it with a screwdriver"....click is all it did.

I also grounded my voltmeter, and put the positive to the housing of the starter to see if there was any stray voltage so I jumped the starter again, no stray voltage.

Starter is probably junk. Maybe I am over thinking this too much, but it's fun to overthink....I just don't want to waste money is all, and replacing things that don't need to be.

 

[Bextreme04]

Car is jacked up now, so I did a couple more things: Old fashioned "jump it with a screwdriver"....click is all it did.

I also grounded my voltmeter, and put the positive to the housing of the starter to see if there was any stray voltage so I jumped the starter again, no stray voltage.

Starter is probably junk. Maybe I am over thinking this too much, but it's fun to overthink....I just don't want to waste money is all, and replacing things that don't need to be.

It sure sounds like a bad starter or a worn solenoid "button".

My truck would do the click but no crank thing. Turned out the stud that the wire bolted to was worn down completely internally so that it wouldn't make contact with the disk inside anymore. The way that the solenoid works is that it pushes out the gear while moving a rotating disk up to make contact with the power stud. You hear the click because the solenoid is engaging and pushing it out, but if it doesn't internally touch the disk, it won't engage the starter to start turning.

 

[OldBlueDually]

It sure sounds like a bad starter or a worn solenoid "button".

My truck would do the click but no crank thing. Turned out the stud that the wire bolted to was worn down completely internally so that it wouldn't make contact with the disk inside anymore. The way that the solenoid works is that it pushes out the gear while moving a rotating disk up to make contact with the power stud. You hear the click because the solenoid is engaging and pushing it out, but if it doesn't internally touch the disk, it won't engage the starter to start turning.

I too bet it is the starter. Interesting about the solenoid....hmmmm...

Well, I wonder if I could re-build my original starter? It is a FoMoCo starter so it may be an original to the car.