88 suburban time to upgrade the sound, looking for ideas

[Mechanixman]

Ok so I just bought this 88 suburban I love it, drives great but that radio is terrible. All the speakers are blown. So with some research i have decided on a couple things but I need some ideas, see what you suburban guys have done.
I know I do not want to cut the dash, looking at a retro sound unit right now that I like (my girl told me she didn't want to those big metal buttons. Ah the important things.

http://www.retrosound.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=1973-87-C59-S15-M2

Now for the important part, the speakers. 3.5 on the dash probably aren't going to now my socks off and 4x10 in the rear not going to help too much. I have been looking to see of anyone has modified the 4x10 to fit some 6x9s. Also want to see what kind of sub setups are out there. I have been looking at the undercover 2 woofers that I can slide under the rear seats. If anyone has used these, I am curious on the quality of sound.
http://www.classicindustries.com/product/1988/truck/parts/s5064.html

I'm open to ideas, I am not excited about the idea of adding speakers to the doors if I can avoid it .
Let me know what you think.

 

[skysurfer]

I wouldn't try to put anything under the 2nd row seats. When you fold them for carrying cargo the seatbacks are face down on the floor. There's not even three inches for those woofers.

 

[adamj]

I'm in a similar situation, let me tell you what I know and have experienced.

On the retrosound model 2:
- I have the retrosound in another vehicle and was pretty disappointed. It's great because it fits with the style, looks stock, and you don't have to cut up your dash just to put a flashing LED crap single-DIN headunit in your dash that ruins the stock look. But, that's about it for my pro's on the retrosound. The bad: sound quality. For $330+ bucks, I expected better sound. I have good speakers and a sub running through a quality Alpine 5 channel amplifier using the 6 channel output RCAs (I guess that was the other plus for retrosound, having those preamp outputs). And I dynamatted the interior so it's dead quiet. Anyway, sound quality was a disappointment.
- Then it's a few other little things. I installed 2 USB ports to make use of the 2 aux input connections it has, and I figured it would be convenient for either driver or passenger to plug in and charge and play music from either device. However, I learned (after installing) that the usb's do not charge simultaneously, and what's more, they don't charge your device while its not playing music – you have to have a song playing for it to charge –*(and it's a low-amp, slow charging usb port for that matter). The interaction of the retrosound headunit with iOS devices is not that great either. Then there's little bugs/software things such as when I use the bluetooth to make a handsfree call, after 15 minutes or so it disconnects. Also, the knob feel is not the best. When I go to change/seek, I will turn the knob one direction, and sometimes the receiver goes the other... Anyway, just little things like that, especially when for that price, you could buy an audiophile-quality head unit. I guess another good thing about the retrosound is that you can customize the screen color to match other dash lights you have, you can really dial it in exactly with RGB levels. There, I tried to give my pros and cons of the retrosound, but I will not be getting another one for my current squarebody build.


What I'm planning for the current square:
- keeping the stock Delco cassette radio in the normal place, but running sound from a quality head unit in the glove compartment (any body do this nice and have pictures?)
- I will control the head unit with the remote that comes with it (using IR extender if needed)
- x2 4" Coaxial Speakers in the metal dash in the corners
- x2 6.5" Component Speakers in Q-Logic kick panels (For sound stage, and I too don't want to cut my doors for speakers) [Any thoughts on q logic kick panels from any who has them?]
- Compact powered sub under the front bench seat
- 4 or 5 channel amplifier under front seat as well powering speakers (Side note: I tried to find a compact un-powered subwoofer and run power from an amp, but the only subs I can find that will fit are powered subs) And I don't want a sub box in the back taking up space since I use the cargo area a lot. I want a "sleeper" sound system (minus those kick panel speakers, but I feel it's necessary)
- I am also considering wiring the Delco unit some way so I can hook it up to the RCA Aux input on the new head unit and run it as a cassette player (but that would just be an extra, for-fun thing)

I have also seen some auto restoration/electronic company that takes those classic delco radios and guts the electronics, then puts new internals (including bluetooth if you want that sort of thing). Something like this: http://www.turnswitch.com/radio1.htm
But that get pricey...

Anyway, I am still in the planning stages and would like to hear what people have done.
I'm with you, Mechanixman, I don't want to cut up my dash, but want good sound.

 

[Mechanixman]

I'm in a similar situation, let me tell you what I know and have experienced.

On the retrosound model 2:
- I have the retrosound in another vehicle and was pretty disappointed. It's great because it fits with the style, looks stock, and you don't have to cut up your dash just to put a flashing LED crap single-DIN headunit in your dash that ruins the stock look. But, that's about it for my pro's on the retrosound. The bad: sound quality. For $330+ bucks, I expected better sound. I have good speakers and a sub running through a quality Alpine 5 channel amplifier using the 6 channel output RCAs (I guess that was the other plus for retrosound, having those preamp outputs). And I dynamatted the interior so it's dead quiet. Anyway, sound quality was a disappointment.
- Then it's a few other little things. I installed 2 USB ports to make use of the 2 aux input connections it has, and I figured it would be convenient for either driver or passenger to plug in and charge and play music from either device. However, I learned (after installing) that the usb's do not charge simultaneously, and what's more, they don't charge your device while its not playing music – you have to have a song playing for it to charge –*(and it's a low-amp, slow charging usb port for that matter). The interaction of the retrosound headunit with iOS devices is not that great either. Then there's little bugs/software things such as when I use the bluetooth to make a handsfree call, after 15 minutes or so it disconnects. Also, the knob feel is not the best. When I go to change/seek, I will turn the knob one direction, and sometimes the receiver goes the other... Anyway, just little things like that, especially when for that price, you could buy an audiophile-quality head unit. I guess another good thing about the retrosound is that you can customize the screen color to match other dash lights you have, you can really dial it in exactly with RGB levels. There, I tried to give my pros and cons of the retrosound, but I will not be getting another one for my current squarebody build.


What I'm planning for the current square:
- keeping the stock Delco cassette radio in the normal place, but running sound from a quality head unit in the glove compartment (any body do this nice and have pictures?)
- I will control the head unit with the remote that comes with it (using IR extender if needed)
- x2 4" Coaxial Speakers in the metal dash in the corners
- x2 6.5" Component Speakers in Q-Logic kick panels (For sound stage, and I too don't want to cut my doors for speakers) [Any thoughts on q logic kick panels from any who has them?]
- Compact powered sub under the front bench seat
- 4 or 5 channel amplifier under front seat as well powering speakers (Side note: I tried to find a compact un-powered subwoofer and run power from an amp, but the only subs I can find that will fit are powered subs) And I don't want a sub box in the back taking up space since I use the cargo area a lot. I want a "sleeper" sound system (minus those kick panel speakers, but I feel it's necessary)
- I am also considering wiring the Delco unit some way so I can hook it up to the RCA Aux input on the new head unit and run it as a cassette player (but that would just be an extra, for-fun thing)

I have also seen some auto restoration/electronic company that takes those classic delco radios and guts the electronics, then puts new internals (including bluetooth if you want that sort of thing). Something like this: http://www.turnswitch.com/radio1.htm
But that get pricey...

Anyway, I am still in the planning stages and would like to hear what people have done.
I'm with you, Mechanixman, I don't want to cut up my dash, but want good sound.

Adamj, thanks man for the detailed reply, I think I'll stay away from retro sound.
When you do your setup with the head unit in the glove box, are you going to run the output from the original heading as an input to the new head unit so you can control regular radio (and of course that huge tape collection) with the stock unit? Or would that deteriorate the sound of the radio? I hadn't considered that as an option until I read your post.

I'm going to contact those guys at turnswitch.com and see what the damage is on one of those.


As far as the dash speakers in the corners, will 4" fit in the stock location without much modification?

I'm definitely interested in the kick panel speakers from q logic if anyone out there has tried then.

Last question for now, do you have any plans for the 4x10s in the back? I don't think there are any quality 4x10s out there just wondering if there are any good ideas on adding sound to the back of the suburban.

Thanks

 

[adamj]

Look, let me just say that the retrosound is not terrible, I just thought for the price it should have been better. It is a quick and easy way to update your sound, while keeping it stockish. But I can get a top-of-the-line headunit for less than that, so that's what I'm going to do.



I would like to have controls with the old unit, but I think that will be a bit more involved than I am capable of, seems like it would require some electrical modifications, but it would be nice to be able to use volume and seek/track directly from original.

I think there is another company out there besides those guys I mentioned that does restoration. I don't think turnswitch or the other guys have preamp outputs, and I will be running an amp without a doubt. Just seems easier to run a modern unit, but hidden.

For the dash speakers, originally there are brackets in the corners for a unique speaker size that gm put in originally. Mine has 3.5" right now (aftermarket from 1990s it looks like) that do not use those brackets and are just drilled in to the sheet metal. I measured, and am pretty confident I can fit 4" speakers in there by drilling new holes and mounting from below - the stock hole size fits the speaker diameter I found. I want to go with 4" because it opens up options for better speakers (but really, the bulk of the sound will be coming from those kick panel speakers)
Another option in the dash is the center speaker location, which originally had a single 4x10. I have seen people use a bracket to mount x2 4" or 3.5" speakers right next to each other in that location. I am still debating whether I should do that or go with the side corner location (or both!)

For the rear speakers:
I have the scottsdale trim and it does not have the 4x10 rear speakers on the sides just after the rear doors like you are talking about. I do have some non-functional speakers in the rear cargo doors (But I don't think that was a stock location for speakers, I think someone might have cut holes). I think I should be fine with just those 4 speakers + sub all up front.

I have decided to do this instead with my rear doors:

You must be registered for see images attach

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(Some German guy from Expedition Portal I would like to credit, but I don't remember who)

 

[Mechanixman]

I hate to say, I have talked to turnswitch.com and they can not help me with my head unit as it has the digital display and that is beyond what they upgrade.

With that said, I am wondering now, if you can use the output from the original unit, can't you just wire it into a rca and use it as an input to the new head unit that you are putting into your glove box? It seems really straight forward to me, you have a left and right output to the speakers, why not just put that straight into an RCA input to the new unit and use that as an aux input to use to go the speakers.

I am putting that out there to see if I am missing anything.

I appreciate what you are saying about the retrosound unit, I happen to agree with you, for the price, it seems a bit ridiculous to not offer the same sound quality as, at least, a mid level aftermarket unit.

Just want to say, I really like what you did with the rear doors Adamj, I wish I had the barn doors and I would try to copy that. Sadly, I have the fold down rear tailgate (which I am working on repair due to rust in the rear latch and a faulty rear lock switch to lower the rear window)

I said *** it, I am sticking with the 4" for the dash and am about to order the kick panels for the front.... Now, I am just stuck at this point for a good direction for the head unit, unless i go with the glove box idea.

 

[yevgenievich]

There will be impedence mismatch going straight from speaker out to rca in. It might work on a new unit depending on how it is made or might need a gain box inbetween.

 

[adamj]

Make sure you look up the mounting measurements for the 4"-ers you plan on getting and measure to make sure they'll fit. I did with mine and they should just fit without modification.

I plan on running a line out converter which takes the speaker-level signal and converts it to line-level RCA's, which will then be used as an auxiliary input to my new-age radio hidden away. This is just an added thing on the side, and I'll see if I even use it, but I thought having a cassette player would be cool.

Also, I ordered the Q logic kick panels from crutchfield. They are well-made and fit nicely. I haven't installed the speakers yet, but I am considering going with 5.25" speakers since the instructions insist that the 6.5" speaker will only fit without the grill, and I really would like the protection since they are right by your feet and I don't want to risk damage. Still debating weather I want to try and force the 6.5" with grill to fit... (6.5" is going to be a much better speaker than the 5.25")

 

[Mechanixman]

Ok so latest news, I installed the 4" on the dash yesterday (wasn't feeling great so thats about all I did. the cluster was fighting me and I want to put the leds in before I reinstall the dash pad) I have the kick panels, they came in last week, they don't match perfectly but they seem to fit nicely. I decided to go with 6.5 components at the kick panel level. I had a radio I ordered for my 72 suburban (one of the retrosound, i figured it would be ok for now), but it doesn't fit, so I am back to square one on that one. I did get a Rockford Fosgate 12" powered sub that I am going to use.

I am doing research now looking around to see what kind of setup I should go for at this point. I am thinking I like the idea of keeping the original unit for the in dash setup and for the radio control. I am thinking I might put a radio in the center console, it would be more convenient for the driver there. I just have to decide now if I am going to go with an amplifier for the new speakers or just use the power from the head unit.

 

[adamj]

For the q logic's do you mean the color didn't match? Cuz I had that problem too, thinking about spraying them. I have tan interior, and the q logic are too dark.
For the 6.5" are you able to fit speaker grills?

Which Rockford sub is that? And where are you going to put it?

Oh, and how did the 4" install go? Did you just screw into the metal from below?

 

[adamj]

Any pics of the install?