Is a 2wd 4L60E worth the trouble?

[StuB]

I have a very good condition 4L60E that I pulled from my '96 Caprice.

I'm thinking about trying to use it, along with the LT-1 that I pulled from the same vehicle, in my K-10. I would also want to use the PCM, harness, etc. from it.

Is it worth going through the trouble of adapting this transmission to 4wd, or would it be better/easier to pull one that is already set up for 4wd?

 

[Christian Nelson]

I have a very good condition 4L60E that I pulled from my '96 Caprice.

I'm thinking about trying to use it, along with the LT-1 that I pulled from the same vehicle, in my K-10. I would also want to use the PCM, harness, etc. from it.

Is it worth going through the trouble of adapting this transmission to 4wd, or would it be better/easier to pull one that is already set up for 4wd?

Depends on who's doing the work, and if you can cheaply get the parts needed. As far as I know, you need a tail shaft, and tail housing change for 4x4. To do the tail shaft, you need to take the tranny apart, and swap it out. If you do it yourself, shouldn't be too expensive, however, I would think that finding a 700r4 already in a 4x4 in a junkyard would be cheaper.

 

[oneluckypops]

Personally I dont beleive the LT1 is a good candidate for a 4X4 Truck. The reason is the Distributor (opti spark) on the LT1 is mounted behind the water pump and is prone to failure from moisture. There is an alternative, do some research on using a regular style distributor and having the intake machined to accept it.

As for the 4L60E, they made 2 different tail housing bolt patterns, 4 hole and a 6 hole. If its a 6 hole your going to be limited on options for transfer cases. If it is a 4 hole then you would be able to use any transfer case that was ever mated behind a 700R4.

The output shaft is fairly simple to change, However you will need to dis assemble the Transmission to reach the snap ring that holds the shaft in.

Another problem you may have is what gears are you going to be using in the truck? Any Transmission you should plan accordingly but ESPECIALLY with a 4L60E. Not saying they are a junk transmission but they do have some problems. I do NOT Reccomend bigger tires with this transmission WITH OUT Re gearing. The highest gear ratio I would suggest would be 3.73's with a 30-31" tire. If your running 33's then I would go to 3.90-4.10's. Anything over 35" tires i would suggest 4.56 or LOWER.

 

[WHEELMAN]

The truth-straight to you..the 4l60 is a junk transmission..it has an internal oiling problem..factory parts.transmission..came with defective parts..from the get go..

One of the biggest.defective part.is the sun shield.among others.if you have a rebuilt one.with the up graded parts.and there are lots.that need to go in one of them..

It may last awhile.you sure as hell.do not want to put one in a 4wd..no way no how.when that sun shield goes.you have no.1-3 or reverse..

It will cost you more then it is worth.to get one rebuilt.4l80e was a little better.came in bigger vehicles and the hummers.they have done away with these all together..

I think.even knew cadilac.transmissions.had to be pulled out by the dealer.for internal trans problems.my 1996 espress van.is on the third..4l60e.i had this trans.gone through by a chevy dealer trans guy..

So far it is holding up.but i would not tow.anything with it.it does not feel strong.i know some guys were changing out the autos for..manuals..hanging a clutch pedal..

Even in the caprices..but you could look in to a 4l80e..make sure its parts.were changed out.one of the replacement parts.is called the beast sun shield.did i say.my van only has 142,000 miles.

It has the 350r vortech.beautiful roller motor.runs like new.trans is the weak link.

 

[oneluckypops]

The truth-straight to you..the 4l60 is a junk transmission..it has an internal oiling problem..factory parts.transmission..came with defective parts..from the get go..

One of the biggest.defective part.is the sun shield.among others.if you have a rebuilt one.with the up graded parts.and there are lots.that need to go in one of them..

It may last awhile.you sure as hell.do not want to put one in a 4wd..no way no how.when that sun shield goes.you have no.1-3 or reverse..

It will cost you more then it is worth.to get one rebuilt.4l80e was a little better.came in bigger vehicles and the hummers.they have done away with these all together..

I think.even knew cadilac.transmissions.had to be pulled out by the dealer.for internal trans problems.my 1996 espress van.is on the third..4l60e.i had this trans.gone through by a chevy dealer trans guy..

So far it is holding up.but i would not tow.anything with it.it does not feel strong.i know some guys were changing out the autos for..manuals..hanging a clutch pedal..

Even in the caprices..but you could look in to a 4l80e..make sure its parts.were changed out.one of the replacement parts.is called the beast sun shield.did i say.my van only has 142,000 miles.

It has the 350r vortech.beautiful roller motor.runs like new.trans is the weak link.

I hate to burst your bubble there wheelman BUT.
The only oiling system problem they have is the same one ALL TRANSMISSIONS HAVE "shift firmness" which like every transmission is improved with a shift kit.

The 4L60e is the same as the 700R4 if it was JUNK then they wouldnt have used it for so many years. YES they have made improvements to them over the years, but so has every other transmission on the market.

Personally I think these transmissions have gotten a bad rep from inexperienced people having problem's with them from ABUSING them.

Now I am not saying that you are abusing yours intentionally. They are rated for 6,000 Pounds, so when they put these transmissions in VANS, EXTENDED CAB FULLSIZE PICK UPS they were doomed right from the start, Top that off GM put 3.42 gears in alot of those same vehichles. Most people learned the hard way to NOT tow with them in Overdrive, BUT those same people didnt realize that towing did NOT just mean hooking up a trailer. It also ment hauling, Which is 1 reason why the newer ones have a TOW/HAUL mode. Even then alot of people refuse to use it for fear of burning a few extra gallons.

They say 9 out of 10 Transmission failures are due to heat, That is NOT the transmissions fault. It is the engineers that built these vehichles The Coolers they use are a joke running them thru the radiator, then on "Heavy Duty" models the added another small cooler in front of the Radiator, when they should have used a BIG external cooler from the start.

YES there are internal component failures in these Transmissions, BUT It is NOT that exspensive to completely rebuild AND UPDATE these transmissions.

The "E" in 4L60E stands for electronic. Some people dont think it was a wise decision on GM part to go to electronically controlled, I for one actually like it, for reasons of my own. The biggest thing you have to remember is that the Transmission's electronics are supplied 12 volts from a the ignition switch 9Which are notoriouse for failing that in return causes Transmission failures).
The Electrons are controlled from the Computer sending a GROUND signal to the transmission to operate the solenoids and switches. So when the computer does not get a good ground then it passes the bad ground conditions off to the transmission which causes failures.

The only hard parts that are ever really updated, are the sunshell, and the sprag cluches (1 way bearings) they were desighned poorly but have since then been updated, oh and the 4 planet planetary gears, they were also updated to the 5 planets in the 4L65E. The other updates that are done to the Transmission are updates with the shift kit and worn valves in the valvebody and pump.

4L60E IS NOT A JUNK TRANSMISSION, IT WAS JUST INSTALLED IN THE WRONG VEHICHLES, WHICH HAVE GIVEN IT A BAD NAME. Even after some rebuild them they fail even with the updates, My bed it 9/10 of those people did NOT even install new Bushings either or the BIG cooler.

 

[WHEELMAN]

see this is what i am talking about.people will speak-on something they know nothing about.when my defective 4l60e went out..i went on forums they have on these transmissions and went too the dealer..i called gm in Detroit.they will tell you the same thing..because.they are not going to make any of them good..they did away with the 4l60e and the 4l80e because they had internal oiling problems and defective parts..they even installed at the factory..trans coolers..to try and help the problem,but it did not work..the trans guy at the dealership..told the same thing..defective parts and a internal oiling problem..he had a lot full of them.pulling them out.every day..fixing them.even new front wheel drive cadillacs.with internal pressure problems..gm did away with both transmissions.because.they would not hold up.i do not know.anything about the new replacement..or if it will interchange.gm,s designers..tried to correct the oiling problems.for years..but could not do it..if the gm people could not fix this internal trans problem.a rebuilder is not either.he is installing all up graded parts.that will stand up to the oiling problem and the extra heat.generated.go on line..you will see and read.what all the custom builders.do to the trans..i would trust some that i have seen..

 

[RetroC10Sport]

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[oneluckypops]

see this is what i am talking about.people will speak-on something they know nothing about. Why cause I am not a GM Transmission tech?when my defective 4l60e went out..i went on forums they have on these transmissions and went too the dealer..i called gm in Detroit. I don't doubt you read alot of information from other forums but i seriously doubt you called GM in Detroit and even if you did I could not see them admitting to anything that would make there company responsable for damages from a "poor" design" they will tell you the same thing..because.they are not going to make any of them good..they did away with the 4l60e and the 4l80e because they had internal oiling problems and defective parts..they even installed at the factory..trans coolers..to try and help the problem, lol Yea GM Trans coolers and yet they still ran them thru the radiatorbut it did not work..the trans guy at the dealership..told the same thing.. so what do you think they changed over the many years of operation to improve there "oiling problem" defective parts and a internal oiling problem..he had a lot full of them.pulling them out.every day..fixing them. GM Transmission tech's dont FIX them yea they rebuild them but there not allowed to use the good aftermarket parts they have to be GM parts hell there not even allowed to change the shift firmness, kind of hard to FIX them when you still allow them to shift so slow causing slippage and HEAT new front wheel drive cadillacs.with internal pressure problems..gm did away with both transmissions.because.they would not hold up.i do not know.anything about the new replacement..or if it will interchange. You dont know anything about any of them EXCEPT for what you have read gm,s designers..tried to correct the oiling problems.for years..but could not do it..if the gm people could not fix this internal trans problem.a rebuilder is not either. gee thats amazing cause there are MANY reputable builders that build these Transmissions with out failures he is installing all up graded GM parts.that will stand up to the oiling problem and the extra heat.generated.go on line..you will see and read.what all the custom builders.do to the trans..i would trust some that i have seen.. lol No need for me to go online and read anything

Oh did I forget to tell you I build transmissions with out failures 2

 

[HotRodPC]

See what you started Stub??? Welcome aboard GMSB. As you can tell, there are many opinions about the 700r4/4L60-E. One thing we all agree on is they have had their problems. Even GOOD builders will tell you that. No denying that. As said, you will have to pull the trans apart completely to get to the back of the case to change output shafts. There is not tailshaft for a 4x4. The Tcase adapter takes place of the taifshaft housing. Just use the 4x4 output shaft. Do be sure as Pops mentioned that the tailshaft adapter is the 4 bolt style instead of the newer 6 bolt style. This way you can use any Tcase adapter that was intended for Th350, 700r4 and earlier 4 bolt style 4L60-E transmissions. Do keep in mind, the Th350 and Th400 are much more durable than the OD transmissions. The 700r4 can be made to be a good transmission, but be prepared to spend the cash to get it there and even then the Th350 is likley more durable.

 

[bucket]

Oh did I forget to tell you I build transmissions with out failures 2

hehe

 

[WHEELMAN]

you can go too those transmission web sites and all of them tell you about the problems.bigger pan and extra fluid.did not help.with the oiling problems and the heat build up.there are rebuilders and there are rebuilders..you get what you pay for..

no way.i would.install any of gm,s over drive trans..in anything- we raced years ago..street or the track..we used tb400 transmissions..i guess to keep the rpm,s down you can change out the rears..

the 400 will stand up too anything..it just does not have the over drive.you could look in to the new gm transmission replacements..maybe gm..finally got it right..

i think gm-kept using the defective 4l60e and the 4l80e..because they were massed produced..and they did not want..to just..send them all to the crusher.

and lose money..money and greed..is all that big corporations are about..

 

[RetroC10Sport]

the 400 will stand up too anything..it just does not have the over drive.

Except dual quad 409s and basically stock 454s...Went through 3 of them. Cracked the casing every time.

 

[bucket]

you can go too those transmission web sites and all of them tell you about the problems.bigger pan and extra fluid.did not help.with the oiling problems and the heat build up.there are rebuilders and there are rebuilders..you get what you pay for..

no way.i would.install any of gm,s over drive trans..in anything- we raced years ago..street or the track..we used tb400 transmissions..i guess to keep the rpm,s down you can change out the rears..

the 400 will stand up too anything..it just does not have the over drive.you could look in to the new gm transmission replacements..maybe gm..finally got it right..

i think gm-kept using the defective 4l60e and the 4l80e..because they were massed produced..and they did not want..to just..send them all to the crusher.

and lose money..money and greed..is all that big corporations are about..

I don't think you understand the difference between a light-duty tranny and a defective tranny. As was already stated, GM just put the 700r4 and 4l60e tranny in some trucks and vans they shouldn't have. When you factor in how many millions of those things were built, the failure rate really isn't that high. And I know lots of guys with built 4l60e's that are holding up just fine to lots of power.

And the 4l80e is not a problematic tranny.

 

[RetroC10Sport]

Yeah, i never broke a 4L80E.........Even behind a 455HO Pontiac.

 

[HotRodPC]

I don't think you understand the difference between a light-duty tranny and a defective tranny. As was already stated, GM just put the 700r4 and 4l60e tranny in some trucks and vans they shouldn't have. When you factor in how many millions of those things were built, the failure rate really isn't that high. And I know lots of guys with built 4l60e's that are holding up just fine to lots of power.

And the 4l80e is not a problematic tranny.

You are right bucket. But there are many mods and some of them not so cheap to get a 700r4/4L60-E to hold up to abuse. Although, the later the model the better the trans. GM made changes every year on the 700r4 and 4L60-E starting as first year of production in 82. So yes, it is possible to have a decent performing 700r4/4L60-E, but it still will not have the durability and longevity of a Th350 that can be built for dirt cheap.

I'm not sure of this "oiling problem" being spoke of. I never knew that to be a problem, unless its being reffered to as the pressure regulator problem, but that had been corrected long ago as well as more fluid to the back of the case. Bottom line is, if you want the advantage of the OD and the lower 1st gear, have it built RIGHT. Keep it cool, and don't run to tall of a gear ratio. 4L60-E's love low rear gear ratios. And you can do that since you have an OD to compensate for the low gear. Then you have the better of all worlds.