Inline 250 belt problems

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1sik78

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So I have been looking for info on why my belts keep on sliding off. I've replaced them 2 times already. Seems like the water pump pulley is not lining up with crank pulley. The alt. belt is the one that comes of first then the power steering one will sometimes come off. Today both came off. The crank pulley is out about half an inch more than the water pump pulley
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I think it can be a bad water pump because the crank pulley is flush to the timing cover. Please help thanks.
 

1sik78

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1sik78

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Better pics
 
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1sik78

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And on the water pump pulley there are two washers pushing out the pulley from previous owner. They fit perfect so there is no wobble.
 

Stewzer55

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I wonder if the Alternator is supposed to be bolted on the other side of the bracket.
 

highdesertrange

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been awhile since I worked on a strait 6. have you checked your balancer. is it tight? is it backing out? you said you had washers on the water pump pulley to align it. this might be the problem also, you shouldn't need washers behind the pulley. maybe the wp is not right for your app. btw your lower rad hose is bad, getting ready to blow. highdesertranger
 

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I may be day dreaming but im pretty sure ive come across long and short water pumps before.

it looks like the pulleys are a matching set. kinda hard to tell though from pics.

If your sure everything is tight at the balancer I would double check that water pump and see if there isn't a longer version. If your absolutely positive that its the correct pump then I would try to find a matching pulley set off another truck or something. And im pretty sure the pulley should sit directly on the pump, no washers behind it.
 

1sik78

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I may be day dreaming but im pretty sure ive come across long and short water pumps before.

it looks like the pulleys are a matching set. kinda hard to tell though from pics.

If your sure everything is tight at the balancer I would double check that water pump and see if there isn't a longer version. If your absolutely positive that its the correct pump then I would try to find a matching pulley set off another truck or something. And im pretty sure the pulley should sit directly on the pump, no washers behind it.


So I have been looking at harmonic balancer problems. I found out that they can start to fall apart. There is a rubber ring showing in the back of mine and you can see it's starting to separate, it's hard to explain but I think that's the problem with mine. Thanks for the info and yes the washers will be removed that is not right.
 

chengny

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The rubber isolation ring normally protrudes a bit from both the front and back of the damper. Also, given the age of your truck, some minor cracking in the visible part is to be expected.

That is not what is causing you to throw your belts.

The main reason that belts are thrown - and get eaten up prematurely - is due to misalignment of the pulleys/sheaves that they run on.

There are 2 kinds of misalignment that you should be concerned about:

1. Angular - when the pulleys are not pointing in the same direction

2. Parallel - when they are pointing in the same direction but are offset from each other

They look like this:

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When it is time to set up the pulleys on an engine that has been disassembled (or an engine that has had multiple belt related parts changed), the most critical step is designating a baseline. There must be one "master" pulley that, once set in place, becomes the reference point for all the other pulleys in the system.

I am more familiar with the SBC but the basics apply to an in-line as well.

The best (really the only) pulley to use as the baseline is the waterpump/fan pulley. This is because it's distance from the engine block is "not negotiable". The distance between the front of the block and the waterpump flange face is fixed - by the design of the pump. The pulley is hard up against the pump flange. The fan clutch spacer and fan hub are added on to the forward face of the waterpump pulley.

Once the position of the fan/pump pulley is set, you can start building off of that point. Next is the main driver -the crankshaft pulley. This is normally bolted on to the front face of the harmonic balancer. The right way to line up the crankshaft pulley with the fan/pump pulley is to move the harmonic balancer on the crank snout. Getting proper alignment of the crank to fan pulley can sometimes be a challenge because of the different number of grooves in the two pulleys. If they were both single groove pulleys, you could just check parallel alignment with a straight edge laid across the faces. But in real life, you sometimes have to work from the back or within the grooves themselves.

Anyway, once you have the crankshaft pulley perfectly lined up with the fan/pump pulley you can line up the other auxiliary pulleys.

The alternator pulley will generally line right up - as long as the stock bracket is used.

The trouble comes when its time to line up the other stuff (i.e. power steering pump, A/C compressor, smog pumps, hydraulic pump for a plow, etc.). These components always seem to have a number of spacers/shims that are necessary to get their associated pulleys to line up with the "master group". The "master group" being the fan/crank/alternator.

Just use a straight edge and make sure that the auxiliary pulleys are aligned in both the axial and parallel planes. Recheck after you tighten up a component - sometimes the alignment will change when the mounting bolts are brought up tight.
 
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highdesertrange

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I must respectfully disagree the crankshaft is the only one you can't change. you can't move the balancer in or out. at least I hope you can't. you can change to a different pulley with a different configuration but you can do that on the wp also. the flange on the wp that the pulley rides on is pressed on. it is not in a fixed position. the idiot rebuilding or building the wp might not have install the flange in the correct location. I have seen it. same pump same part number, flange in a different position. if you know what your doing you can even move the flange yourself. however most of the time you have a mismatch of parts. highdesertranger
 

chengny

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Right or wrong, this is how I begin the alignment procedure:

With the water pump mounted on the block - gaskets installed and torqued to spec - the fan pulley hub is made up tight to the water pump flange face.

BTW - a little know fact. The holes in the water pump flange are tapped for a 5/16" - 24 bolt. Use of these tapped holes (instead of the usual through bolts & nuts) allows for fan hub removal without reaching behind the pump flange and into the back of the pulley hub:

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The crank pulley is bolted to the harmonic balancer - on the bench.

The balancer/pulley assembly is heated. When it is at the desired temperature, it is placed on the tip of the crankshaft.

While still hot, the hub of the balancer is drawn up on the snout. It is advanced inward using either the damper bolt (and some washers) or a H/B installing tool.

Using a straight edge as a reference, the balancer is slowly drawn on to the crank snout until the crank pulley is in perfect parallel alignment with the fan pulley.

Because it is important to maintain the designed clearance between the fan blades and radiator shroud, it is not recommended to alter the effective length of the fan/pump coupling.

On the other hand, there is about an inch of available sealing surface where the balancer hub passes through the crankshaft seal. The contact point between lip of the seal and the hub surface can be adjusted as required to line up the pulleys.
 

1sik78

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So everyone that has put in information thank you a lot. I will replace my radiator hose thanks to HIGHDESERTRANGE.

I took of the pulley and look at it how the rubber from in between the pulley is coming out. This would be up against the timing cover. I believe that's the dampener. A normal balancer is flush on both sides.
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1sik78

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C10 pickup
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250 inline 6
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1sik78

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Sparks,Nevada
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C10 pickup
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250 inline 6
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1sik78

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250 inline 6
I will also replace the timing cover gasket and the seal as you can see there is some oil around. Timing cover area is covered with old oil and sludge.
 

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