What's the right balancer?

[gemiller]

The truck I picked up the balancer must be the incorrect one because it doesn't hit timing on anything close, it's inches off.

The truck was originally a 305 and has a 350 crate 87-95 gen (square bore, or whatever they call it with the vertical intake bolts).

I think they may have pulled the 305 balancer onto the crate but I don't know that to be fact. Just looking to see if anyone can help me pick a correct balancer to replace onto it so that I can put a real accurate timing to it, rather than doing it by ear or trying for TDC and marking.

 

[firebane]

Balancer doesn't matter perse.

As long as the balancer and timing pointer are correct to each other and work when #1 is at TDC that is all that matters.

Find where TDC is and see if it all lines up properly. If not then you could have the wrong timing cover for the balancer.

 

[gemiller]

Balancer doesn't matter perse.

As long as the balancer and timing pointer are correct to each other and work when #1 is at TDC that is all that matters.

Find where TDC is and see if it all lines up properly. If not then you could have the wrong timing cover for the balancer.

I'm aware of what you are saying, I'm saying that they don't line up; how can I pick the cover to match the balancer, or balancer to match the cover.

I don't need to buy both, just one, and I don't know how to figure out which of each I have/need.

I'm only guessing it's the early '87 305 balancer on a 87-95 head crate motor.

 

[firebane]

I'm aware of what you are saying, I'm saying that they don't line up; how can I pick the cover to match the balancer, or balancer to match the cover.

I don't need to buy both, just one, and I don't know how to figure out which of each I have/need.

I'm only guessing it's the early '87 305 balancer on a 87-95 head crate motor.

Where is the 0 mark pointing on your current balancer when you are TDC?

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[gemiller]

Where is the 0 mark pointing on your current balancer when you are TDC?

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Hmm, that's an interesting picture, because the timing cover marker on my motor is on the side/angled, so now i'm a little more confused on how it could possibly be a post 1986 balancer with a pre 1987 timing cover on a post 1986 crate motor. The timing indicator shows up more vertical then the cover marker.

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- my timing marker locations look like it may be at this location (3o clockish)

EDIT: Maybe that does make sense, he pulled the cover over from 305 but balancer worked fine and now it's off.

 

[firebane]

How did you confirm tdc? There are a couple of methods of doing this but just to confirm.

 

[gemiller]

How did you confirm tdc? There are a couple of methods of doing this but just to confirm.

for the sake of this I just put a 1/4" extension in the cyl 1 and felt it, it was far enough off that the relationship was definately unrelated to the play left in this method.

I thought about just doing positive stop, measuring it and marking/etching the balancer to the timing cover markers that's on it, but i'd rather have it be the right stuff for the motor.

 

[firebane]

for the sake of this I just put a 1/4" extension in the cyl 1 and felt it, it was far enough off that the relationship was definately unrelated to the play left in this method.

I thought about just doing positive stop, measuring it and marking/etching the balancer to the timing cover markers that's on it, but i'd rather have it be the right stuff for the motor.

You would be better off using a piece of 12g wire stuck in the plug hole to stop the piston from travelling. Using a 1/4" extension will be too thick and not give you an accurate reading.

 

[gemiller]

You would be better off using a piece of 12g wire stuck in the plug hole to stop the piston from travelling. Using a 1/4" extension will be too thick and not give you an accurate reading.

I use clothesline for positive stop, but that's neither here nor there. I didn't use the extension as positive stop, Just felt for top of movement. There's a little play there to be had sure, but not enough to be inches off. Timing light on the motor and moving distributor the indicator never gets on the markers, it's definitely not right.

 

[firebane]

I use clothesline for positive stop, but that's neither here nor there. I didn't use the extension as positive stop, Just felt for top of movement. There's a little play there to be had sure, but not enough to be inches off. Timing light on the motor and moving distributor the indicator never gets on the markers, it's definitely not right.

What diameter is the balancer on your truck? 305 and 350 balancers should be the same. Now the balancer itself COULD slip if its old. Have you looked at the rubber on it?

 

[gemiller]

What diameter is the balancer on your truck? 305 and 350 balancers should be the same. Now the balancer itself COULD slip if its old. Have you looked at the rubber on it?

Yea I looked at it, it doesn't appear to be in any form of bad shape (now obviously that doesn't mean it didn't move for sure).

Looking over the picture you posted, I think that the situation may(of course no certainty). That the balancer is just fine in terms of marker accuracy coming off the earlier 305 but the timing cover moved over to the post 87-95 crate did not. I don't have any way to know whether the 1987 truck had a pre 87 305 (which would make sense I think, due to assembly and stock quantity, etc). That would leave me to believe that the timing cover needs to be changed to one with the marker where the picture you posted shows.

Next time I get a chance I'll do a real quick positive stop and see if TDC looks to be at 12'oclock, that would probably give a fairly accurate determination if that's the real issue. It's running fine by ear right now, but i'll get this solved one way or another.

 

[firebane]

Yea I looked at it, it doesn't appear to be in any form of bad shape (now obviously that doesn't mean it didn't move for sure).

Looking over the picture you posted, I think that the situation may(of course no certainty). That the balancer is just fine in terms of marker accuracy coming off the earlier 305 but the timing cover moved over to the post 87-95 crate did not. I don't have any way to know whether the 1987 truck had a pre 87 305 (which would make sense I think, due to assembly and stock quantity, etc). That would leave me to believe that the timing cover needs to be changed to one with the marker where the picture you posted shows.

Next time I get a chance I'll do a real quick positive stop and see if TDC looks to be at 12'oclock, that would probably give a fairly accurate determination if that's the real issue. It's running fine by ear right now, but i'll get this solved one way or another.

Chances are it will just be easier for you to buy an aftermarket pointer and use that for TDC.

The timing cover I had on my truck simply would not work with the balancer I have and went this route and have no problems.

 

[MadOgre]

Yea I looked at it, it doesn't appear to be in any form of bad shape (now obviously that doesn't mean it didn't move for sure).

Looking over the picture you posted, I think that the situation may(of course no certainty). That the balancer is just fine in terms of marker accuracy coming off the earlier 305 but the timing cover moved over to the post 87-95 crate did not. I don't have any way to know whether the 1987 truck had a pre 87 305 (which would make sense I think, due to assembly and stock quantity, etc). That would leave me to believe that the timing cover needs to be changed to one with the marker where the picture you posted shows.

Next time I get a chance I'll do a real quick positive stop and see if TDC looks to be at 12'oclock, that would probably give a fairly accurate determination if that's the real issue. It's running fine by ear right now, but i'll get this solved one way or another.

Id believe that 87 and up engines used a different style of balancer than the 86 and down. Basically if it has a one piece rear seal that it uses an internally balanced set up. If it has a 2piece rear seal it uses an externally balanced set up. Both requiring different balancers.

I could be wrong but I believe that hows it goes lol to many pain meds today!!!

Go to GM and make sure that you have the correct balancer for your engine. Sounds like buddy put on the wrong balancer trying to be cheap an save $s not realizing that they are different.

 

[MikeB]

Where is the 0 mark pointing on your current balancer when you are TDC?

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Best explanation I've ever seen. I'd add that the degrees are relative to the key way.

Can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain it w/o a picture!

Administrators: This needs to be a sticky.

 

[gemiller]

Best explanation I've ever seen. I'd add that the degrees are relative to the key way.

Can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain it w/o a picture!

Administrators: This needs to be a sticky.

I agree, it's a really useful image. It has at bare minimum confirmed my suspicion that the motor is indeed correctly pointing (as marker shows up near to where the image indicates post '86 motors). Just gotta get a timing cover or aftermarket indicator to put on it.