Th400 to 700r4 ????

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1911_colt

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Hi i am new to full size vehicles I bought a 87 suburban it has a tbi 350 and a th400 It is lifted on 35 inch tires and re geared I don't know the gears but at 70 mph I'm at like 3300 or so I am thinking about swapping the tranny to a 700r4 and need to know wether that tranny will hold up I do want to swap it to a 454 later and go up to like 38 inch tires but that's a ways off but I'd really like some good info on the tranny problem cause its about ready to drive but I'd like the od so ya please help
 

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Personally I never had a good expirence with a 700r4, a good swap (if your budget allowed it) would be a NV4500. Just my 2¢
 

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Hi i am new to full size vehicles I bought a 87 suburban it has a tbi 350 and a th400 It is lifted on 35 inch tires and re geared I don't know the gears but at 70 mph I'm at like 3300 or so I am thinking about swapping the tranny to a 700r4 and need to know wether that tranny will hold up I do want to swap it to a 454 later and go up to like 38 inch tires but that's a ways off but I'd really like some good info on the tranny problem cause its about ready to drive but I'd like the od so ya please help

Hi If the right person builds your 700r4 it can take a lot of abuse you can also swap in an early 4l80e with a 91 7060ecm and do some minor wiring harness modifications or swap to a NV4500 like the last poster suggested but you may also want to look into making sure you have the proper gear ratio you can talk to HotRodPC he is one of the best guys on the forum to talk to about drivetrain issues so ya talk to him
 

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As far as gears go, just pop the back cover off and look. 35's doing 3300 i would think like 4.56's.
I turned about 3.1k-3.5k with 4.11's on 32's.
 

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Ok how do I get ahold of him and do you think they will be able to tell me what all needs to be beefed up to make it last my father has rebuilt a few th350s and some 400s do you think he could possibly do the beefing up?
 

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No need to pop the rear gear cover. I can tell you, if you've given accurate info, as in if your tach and speedo are accurate, you're running a 4.10 rear gear ratio. OE tire size is probably 31in tire, which isn't quite 31 inch. 3300rpm @ 70mph is 3110 rpm and 200-300 for Torque Converter loss since Th400 does NOT lock up and puts your #'s right on target for 4.10's.

Yes, overdrive would be nice, and yes 700r4 would be nice IF, it were strong enough for a 3/4 ton. Do realize half tons did get the 700r4. 3/4 tons would have gotten it too had GM thought the 700r4 was tough enough. Even with a good build, it's not likely to last as long as an OE built Th400.

Here are your 5 Options and pretty easy to narrow down to 2 and take your pick based on your actual usage of the vehicle and funds you're willing to spend keeoing in mind what's feasible.

1) Gear Vendor add on Overdrive/Underdrive unit. The Unit is expensive, plus cutting of driveshafts, and crossmember mods to make it work. Usually so expensive, unless you're putting 40,000-50,000 miles a year on your Burb and it being able to pay for itself in about 4-5 years in gas savings, where as with many of us, our squares are secondary or recreational use vehicles and might see 10,000 miles a year, it would take over 10 years to pay for itself.

2) Half Ton 700r4 Overdrive Trans Conversion. Even if I were to build my own for a 3/4 ton, to buy all the good strong super hold servo's, Sonnax aftermarket strengthened hard parts, like the Beast or smart shell, input shaft sleeve mod, roller clutches/sorags etc, valve body and boost valve mods, to make it even worth giving a try which I intend to do someday, would cost close to $1000 in parts. That's with me building it and I woudln't give myself a warranty on it if I were using it for any kind of towing or off-road abuse. It might hold up for awhile, it might not. There will always be the weak link in a 700r4. You'd spend close to $2000 to have a Box Shop, Like Monster Trans or Mad Dog to build you one and with shipping it would be over $2000 and I doubt they warranty it too and it wouldn't have all the good parts I'd have in one I built. Just a standard OE built 700r4 that you could get for $1000 or so, it'll work but for how long?

3) Gear Ratio Change. Could change to rear gears to 3.73 but that will only drop you down about 350 rpm @ 70mph and lose a tad of your bottom end take off or trailer pulling grunt and no real mpg savings at all. Also have the option of dropping to a 3.42 ratio if you're running a 14b Semi Float Rear Axle, or 3.21 if running a 14b Full Float Axle. the 3.42 might be OK if you're not towing, but 3.21 which I have in a 3/4 ton pick up with a 454/Th400 and is a sled as far as I'm concerned. With a gear swap, if you pay to have if you Cash and Carry your axle to a shop to have it done, you're probably looking at $800-$1100 to have it set up with all new bearings, seals and gears. And no matter what gear you run, you're giving up something to have something else. Giving up lower end towing power to gain a few rpm reduction and very little gain if any at all in mpg.
Another Option to this Option.. You could see about finding a used complete rear axle, drum to drum either in 3.73 or 3.42 and give up on finding a 3.21. They're so rare you'd be like winning a power ball lottery to find one. You can usually find one of these used axles for $200-$300 and bolt it in. Personally, I think I'd look at another option since you're giving up something to gain something here.

The Better of Both World Options !!!

4) The manual trans NV4500 Option. Pretty straight forward, just as it says. Convert to the manual NV4500 5 speed with Overdrive transmission used in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Keeping your low 4.10 gears for the low end take off and towing power and compensating the low rear gear ratio with an Overdrive of .73. In the same scenario, 4.10 rear rear on a 31in OE tire size @ 70mph drops your rpms from 3300 down to 2300rpm and you'll actually get it since it's a clutch and not a slipping non locking TC. The NV4500 is rated at 14,500 GVWR. You may actually see an improvement in mpg here and it eventually pay for itself. You haven't said if this is a 2wd or 4wd Burb. 2wd conversion will be much less than a 4x4 conversion and cost would depend on how cheap you found your used NV4500 for along with bell housing, clutch pedal assembly, clutch and driveshaft mod. For 2wd, it could possibly be done for under $1000 and no electrnoics to deal with along with having a damn near bullet proof trans that can tolerate about all the abuse you can throw at it.

5) The 4L80-E Auto Overdrive as Jim suggested. All the same advantages as option #4 except in an auto trans with a lock up Torque Converter and .75 Overdrive. Being the converter locks up, same scenario with 4.10 rear gear on 31in tires @ 70mph, you're turning from 3300rpm down to 2350 rpm. You will have to deal with electonics to do this swap. Being that you're running an ECM already anyway, and the 91 3/4 ton Burb ran a 4L80-E OE, as Jim suggested, run that ECM with the harness in place of the ECM you're running now, otherwise you'd have to get an aftermarket controller which have now come down in price over the last few years to about $700 just for a controller. Best to find the OE ECM in a salvage yard and go that route. If you could acquire the ECM, Harness, Used Trans and converter, you could probably get this done for under $1000 too. And same as above, hopefully a bit of highway mpg gain so the swap can eventually pay for itself.

Myself, I'd consider option 4 or 5 and have better of both worlds with low rear gear for towing and overdrive to compensate it for highway driving.
 

89Suburban

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No A-883 on the list HR?


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Tha is I think I'm gonna just stay with the 400 for a while till I get a 454 and the nv4500 cause I'd rather have a manual and I only drive it maybe 500 miles and month other than when I take it camping thank you for all the info
 

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Tha is I think I'm gonna just stay with the 400 for a while till I get a 454 and the nv4500 cause I'd rather have a manual and I only drive it maybe 500 miles and month other than when I take it camping thank you for all the info

There is no harm at all in making the NV4500 Swap now. You can do this in segments. By converting to NV4500, the motor mounts and all stay in the same place. So buy changing over to 454 will not change anything on the trans. I think the flywheels are even the same for 454 and 350, so really you have nothing to lose unless you're just looking at when you tear it down, it's down for the count and going to be out of commission for a few days to swap both motor and trans.
 

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No A-883 on the list HR?


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Naww, I don't make suggestions for anyone to go on a hunt for hens teeth. First the trans is hard to find, then the bell housing is hard to find.
 

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There is no harm at all in making the NV4500 Swap now. You can do this in segments. By converting to NV4500, the motor mounts and all stay in the same place. So buy changing over to 454 will not change anything on the trans. I think the flywheels are even the same for 454 and 350.

350 is internally balanced and 454 is external balanced. So the flywheels are not interchangable (learned from expirence)

As far as the nv4500 swap its easy(if your burb is a 4x4) the nv4500 has a 32 spline output (same as you th400) and is a direct fit to a 208 tcase. You can use your original crossmember and driveshafts but you may have to move the crossmember forward or back a fraction of an inch. Then all you have left is putting in the pedal assy, cutting a hole in the floor, and running hydraulics. I did a NV3500 swap in my k25 and it's basically the same except for the nv3500/bell being a single unit.

I probally forgot something but its not all that hard, and I'd love to see a 5speed burb.
 

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So the Dshaft lengths stay the same too if you're Th400/NP208? Both front and rear?
 

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So the Dshaft lengths stay the same too if you're Th400/NP208? Both front and rear?

Oh, and thanks for the clarification on the Flywheels, I wasn't certain. I must be thinking of 350 and V6. I know the 350 fits 8 flywheel fits another configuration.
 

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Hey HR, he said he was turning 3300 on 35's, not the factory size.
 

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So the Dshaft lengths stay the same too if you're Th400/NP208? Both front and rear?

Well the nv3500, nv4500(including bell and tcase adapter) and th400 are all extremely close in legnth if not the same so driveshafts should not be affected
 

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