TBI injector no pulse

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kolton5543

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Safford, AZ
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Kolton
Truck Year
1974
Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
Hey guys. I'm new to the Forum here. I've been having issues with my truck and was going through some threads. I couldn't see pictures until I made an account. I figured since I now have an account I may as well make a thread on my problem. So here it is.

My truck is a 1974 k10. It has a 350 700r4 and np203. The story of this truck is a long one so to keep it short I had originally installed a 305 from a '92 caprice and used all of the TBI and serpentine stuff. I used only the minimum needed sensors which include the CTS, IAC, Knock, IAT, TPS, Dizzy, ESC, MAP. Ihink that is it. No O2 or vss. Not the best but still functional. The truck did good until the 305 broke a ring. I replaced it with a rebuilt '93 350 bottom end from a c2500 and retained the 305 heads. I replaced the intake manifold with the '93 c2500 intake because it fit the truck better and I had to use the '93 dizzy also. the truck ran good and never let me down until it got wet.

With the 305 it was perfectly fine. With the 350 the first time I hit a water hole it stalled. It eventually got it to run but it would idle for a little bit then surge then stall. It would always fire up immediately after though and repeat the process. I managed to get back home by restarting the engine when it would start to surge. It sat for a couple of days then it worked fine till recently. I never knew what caused it. Last week I decided to hit some mud holes and again the first hole I hit it stalled. After about 30 minutes it started and ran good again. Hit a couple more holes and eventually it stalled again. this time it continued to not want to run. first it didn't start. eventually it would fire but immediately die. Soon it ran but ran bad and surged. Finally it ran but idled high and had a bad miss fire at idle. It went down the highway good though and did 75. I left it parked for a couple days and it did what it did the first time i hit water and would just surge then stalled. It sat for a couple more days and it now wont start.

I played with it a bunch and haven't gotten it to run. Iv'e narrowed it down to no injector pulse at the ECM. I haven't thrown any money at it yet but I have a lot of spare parts so I've tried them. I've tried a new TPS, MAP, ESC, Coil (though its fuel related) and ignition module. I've checked the plugs at the ECM and cleaned them thoroughly. I can make the injectors fire by applying ground at the injector wire on the ECM connector. The only things I haven't tried changing yet/don't have spares of is the ecm and distributor. If I don't think its the pick up coil because I still have good spark and it runs good when I hand feed it fuel. I don't think it will cause no fuel but still have spark like a module will. Of the things I've swapped the TPS is the only part i am unsure of condition. Everything else I am positive worked.

Should I get the DMM out and start checking wiring now or is there something else I should also be looking at before trying a new ECM. I have fuel pressure around 13 psi with an adjustable regulator from 0 to 120 psi. Remember the only thing that's changed since the 305 is the short block, intake manifold, and dizzy. Everything else is the same.
 

Georgeb

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No injector pulse could be caused by the lack of an ignition pulse to the ECM, a power feed issue to the ECM that would have come from the ECM1 fuse or a bad ground for the ECM it seems water was part of the issue until it dropped our completely so look for components susceptible to water or pinched/shorted wires.
 

kolton5543

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k10
Engine Size
350
So i played with it some more today. I got out the DMM and started probing things. I found diagram of the 747 ecm which is what I have. Ill put it in the attachments. Pins A6 B1 C16 all have 12v+ KOEO (key on engine off). D14 and D16 are the injector terminals and also have 12v+ KOEO which is expected. Pins A11 A12 D1 D2 all have 12v- as expected. Based on the diagram there is no other power/ground connections there. While cranking or running there is no ground pulse on either D14 or D16 when there should be.

So far what I think may be causing the issue is the TPS pins on the ECM. I checked them and pin C14 TPS 5v ref. read 12v-. Pin C13 TPS signal that should be around .6v+ throttle closed read 12v-. Opening the throttle did not change anything. Unplugging the TPS brought C14 down to 11.8v- and C13 down to 11.5v-. So not only are they switched from hot to ground but the voltage is way off. I dont know what could cause this except for a bad ecm or possibly a wiring issue. The wiring in stock form doesn't have any spliced sections in it and this harness hasn't been molested (yet).

What do you guys think. Think I may be missing something. Is there a way to check the reference signal from the ICM to ECM. I'm assuming its a very low voltage square wave signal that I couldn't read with out an oscilloscope which I don't have. I will continue researching and will update with what I find.
 

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kolton5543

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Safford, AZ
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Kolton
Truck Year
1974
Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
Thought about it some the TPS voltage may not be the immediate problem. Pin C13 was 11.5v- TPS unplugged. Battery voltage at the time is 12.08v+. A little low but I've been cranking the piss out of it for the past three days. That means there is about 0.58v+ on the pin TPS unplugged meaning its just right there on spec meaning the computer shouldn't be in clear flood mode. Still there is something wrong with the TPS circuit but theoretically it shouldn't stop injector pulse while unplugged.
 

kolton5543

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k10
Engine Size
350
Ok so I went to confirm my findings and my math was correct. Maybe next time Ill remember to check the polarity on my meter. KOEO the pin C13 has .58v+ on it TPS unplugged. Pin C14 has 0v continuity to ground. I checked the harness and all three wires appear to have continuity to their respective locations. I plugged the TPS back in and nothing seems to change. Opening the throttle changes nothing.
 

kolton5543

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Kolton
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1974
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k10
Engine Size
350
I went and checked the injectors and they both came in at around 1.8 ohms. I tried checked SES light pi and there is no output KOEO and nothing while trying for codes. I got a friend that's gunna let me borrow a spare ECM on Wednesday. If it works out i'll go buy one.
 

kolton5543

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Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
Finally solved it. pIN C16 was bad on the ECM. I was measuring everything from the harness plug which check good. First look at the connectors looked fine but they weren't. I took apart the ECM and started checking everything from the back side of the ECM plug and found C16 wasn't getting any power. I pulled it off and tried to clean the pins even though they looked OK and it broke right off flush with the plug. It was rusted all the way through. I attached an alligator clip to the back side and and the battery and it fired up immediately. TPS voltage works fine and SES light is back on. I'll get a new ECM first chance I get. I'll just solder a new plug on if I can find a replacement.
 

Georgeb

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Your skill far surpasses mine!
 

kolton5543

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Safford, AZ
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Kolton
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1974
Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
Your skill far surpasses mine!

Thank you sir. I do my best to be damn good at what I do but sometimes things will just be some stubborn pigs. I definitely learned a lot of new stuff about the TBI system though so some good came out of it
 

yevgenievich

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sad
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very sad
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less sad
I have a spare ecm from 1990 suburban if you still going the route of replacing the damaged one.
 

kolton5543

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Location
Safford, AZ
First Name
Kolton
Truck Year
1974
Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
I have a spare ecm from 1990 suburban if you still going the route of replacing the damaged one.

Nah its cool. I already got one from a friend that's gunna sell it to me. Thanks though
 

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