Opened 'er up and this is what I found

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

RetroC10Sport

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Posts
17,101
Reaction score
2,237
Location
Green Bastard Parts Unknown
First Name
Jay
Truck Year
2001
Truck Model
pontiac aztek
Engine Size
3.4
I would go with the correct rockers and pushrods. I'm betting that's where the problem lies.
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
I would go with the correct rockers and pushrods. I'm betting that's where the problem lies.

I agree for sure. Just so tempting to swap in a new cam while I'm at it since it is sitting here by my side egging me on...
 

350runner

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Posts
2,858
Reaction score
224
Location
tx
First Name
Ceasar
Truck Year
82
Truck Model
c10
Engine Size
350
If you going to (redo) things please do add new springs and rockers to the list. While your at it do as HOTROD suggest... cause something ain't right to begin with and adding new parts ain't gonna fix it, so do it the right way or pay later....
And yea I'd throw that cam in with out a question
 
Last edited:

HotRodPC

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
47,045
Reaction score
9,087
Location
OKC, OK
First Name
HotRod
Truck Year
85 K20 LWB
Truck Model
Silverado
Engine Size
454 - Turbo 400 - 3.73
No I used the rockers off the 81 engine because the heads didn't come with any. I did make sure to match each rocker with corresponding pushrod and lifter and how the pushrod came out, so the wear patterns were the same. I am just realizing the more research I do, I need to buy some parts before I commence fixing this.

I always preach put a motor, or match any moving parts, and even like to use the same bolts in the same holes when I work stuff when I can, if I can and someone didn't kick my pile of bolts and mess up my layout even though it's usually not necessary. I guess I'm just OCD that way. I even like putting the same lug nuts on the same studs when I change a tire. Doesn't mean I always do, but I prefer to. But there is a reason for that. If I had 1 stud with bad threads, and it took the theads with the lugnut with it, now I mix them up, Now with a bad stud and a bad lugnut, and I use the bad lug nut on the a good stud and a good lug nut on a bad stud, now I've got 2 bad studs and 2 bad lugnuts. On a 5 lugger, with 2 bad sets, that means 3 good sets and hope it's enough.

So where am I going with this??? :shrug: I don't mind a bit you used the same pushrod with the same rocker arm, but it's not necessary at all. The push rods and rocker arms don't usually create a DNA type wear pattern. Lifters and cam lobes for sure on flat tappets. I'd keep them matched up, but for roller cams and lifters, I don't think it even matters.

Which brings me to another question. Are you certain this is Hydraulic Flat Tappet cam you used Hydro lifters with? You're not running hydro lifters on a solid cam, or a sold lifter on a hydro cam. :shrug: That will cause some wear issues in your valvetrain.
 

HotRodPC

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
47,045
Reaction score
9,087
Location
OKC, OK
First Name
HotRod
Truck Year
85 K20 LWB
Truck Model
Silverado
Engine Size
454 - Turbo 400 - 3.73
I would go with the correct rockers and pushrods. I'm betting that's where the problem lies.

I agree for sure. Just so tempting to swap in a new cam while I'm at it since it is sitting here by my side egging me on...

If you going to (redo) things please do add new springs and rockers to the list. While your at it do as HOTROD suggest... cause something ain't right to begin with and adding new parts ain't gonna fix it, so do it the right way or pay later....
And yea I'd throw that cam in with out a question

Yep, I think he found his problem on his own with research. So long as he's got the right lifters with the right cam, I'd imagine his cam and lifters should still be good. Anyone see any reason why the cam and lifters would be damaged? Prolly a set of rockers and pushrods will fix this issue. Did you say you're replacing the springs too?
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
If you going to (redo) things please do add new springs and rockers to the list. While your at it do as HOTROD suggest... cause something ain't right to begin with and adding new parts ain't gonna fix it, so do it the right way or pay later....
And yea I'd throw that cam in with out a question

Definitely new rockers, I firmly believe that is the problem because I didn't research about it until today. Looking at all the rockers, none of them are centered over the valves, so I was running on borrowed time. I inadvertently ran these rockers because I didn't know better. Wish I hadn't now. But a good lesson for me to learn.

For budget reasons I can only do the rockers and pushrods for new parts unless I find other things. Will have trust the stock springs. But I don't race the engine, so hopefully they will be okay.
 

HotRodPC

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
47,045
Reaction score
9,087
Location
OKC, OK
First Name
HotRod
Truck Year
85 K20 LWB
Truck Model
Silverado
Engine Size
454 - Turbo 400 - 3.73
Definitely new rockers, I firmly believe that is the problem because I didn't research about it until today. Looking at all the rockers, none of them are centered over the valves, so I was running on borrowed time. I inadvertently ran these rockers because I didn't know better. Wish I hadn't now. But a good lesson for me to learn.

For budget reasons I can only do the rockers and pushrods for new parts unless I find other things. Will have trust the stock springs. But I don't race the engine, so hopefully they will be okay.

Yeah, I think you're springs are going to be OK and should be a good match for what you have.

Yes, the lesson kinda goofed up your trip, but I still think you did OK for learning the hard way. So long as you didn't hurt the valve tips and the heads don't have to come off to replace the valve, you did good.

So it looks like you'll get the fix done with cracking into the motor and pulling intake too. :waytogo:
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
Which brings me to another question. Are you certain this is Hydraulic Flat Tappet cam you used Hydro lifters with? You're not running hydro lifters on a solid cam, or a sold lifter on a hydro cam. :shrug: That will cause some wear issues in your valvetrain.

I have OCD about stuff too. Never thought about keeping the bolts in the same holes, but I can see the value in doing so. I hate it when lugs go bad.

The only thing I added new when I did the vortec swap was the heads and the intake. Everything was reused from the 81 engine. The cam and lifters in it now are the stock. I probably could just do the rockers and pushrods. I just wonder if the cam kit I have will be more beneficial than the stock cam. It runs great with the stock cam, I just have a feeling the torque numbers would increase by adding the new cam. Just more work that isn't needed to get it back on the road.
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
The lesson surely added a snag to the trip. I think the hours are low enough on the valves that they be okay. I hope that back valve isn't bent.

Should I post the cam specs in a different thread to get some feedback on it? Or is everyone basically saying to swap it in and don't look back?
 

chengny

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Posts
4,086
Reaction score
1,010
Location
NH
First Name
Jerry
Truck Year
1986
Truck Model
K3500
Engine Size
350/5.7
In the absence of any other obvious problems with the valve train, that type of failure is usually indicative of a valve sticking open. It usually does happen with the exhaust valves (you know, due to carbon build up on the stem).

When the valve train is functioning properly, there is never a gap between any of the components. The valve spring is always under some degree of compression. That force of compression is transferred back against the valve stem via the keepers.

With the top of the stem pushing up against the rocker on one side, and the cam lobe (via the push rod) pushing up on the other side, there is no end play in the push rod. A zero clearance condition is always maintained.

However, consider what happens if - for whatever reason - the valve spring fails to return the valve to it's seated position:

As the cam continues to rotate, the lobe moves away from the lifter face. The lifter, due to it's own weight (and the weight of the push rod) will sometimes drop down into the lifter bore. The push rod falls along with the valve lifter.

Meanwhile at the other end of the train, the stuck valve is preventing the spring from decompressing and forcing the stem upward against the rocker. The lifter has continued to fall in the bore and is now on the heel of the cam. The push rod follows right on down with it.

You get the picture - eventually a gap develops between the top of the push rod and the rocker arm. Without any pressure to keep it in place, the rocker arm is free to move anywhere on it's pivot.

Many times, if you are lucky, it will just kind of stays put. Or, if it does move, it stays within (or close to) it's normal - straight up and down - range of motion.

However, if the rocker rotates (as opposed to moving up and down) while it is free to move, that is when things turn bad.

By this time, the cam has made a complete revolution and it's lobe is starting to push upwards on the lifter face. The lifter rises in the bore and forces the push rod up.

If the rocker has not rotated out of it's normal vector, and is still lined up with the push rod, the top of the push rod comes up and finds it's seat in the rocker arm. The other end of the rocker pushes down on the top of the valve stem. Often this contact is enough to break the stuck valve free. The spring is allowed to decompress and re-establish the zero lash condition.

But if the push rod seat in the rocker arm has drifted out of it's normal spot...when the tip of the rod comes up, that is when all hell breaks loose.

Sometimes, there is no damage done. The push rod might hit in such a way that it just shoves the end of the rocker arm over to the side and out of harms way (that looks like what happened in your case).

Other times the rocker can hit close in towards to pivot point. If it contacts the underside of the rocker close enough to the pivot, it will get bent.

This is common in marine engines. The raw cooling water leaving the heat exchanger is injected into the engines exhaust and they both go overboard together. Due to various reasons, this causes the stems of the exhaust valves to be exposed to hot salt water and it is not uncommon to get a sticky exhaust valve near the point of injection.
 

Driver4r

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Posts
3,087
Reaction score
40
Location
Nebraska
First Name
Trevor
Truck Year
76,74
Truck Model
k10,c20
Engine Size
355/th350/np203, 454/th350/ff-rear
Unsure of your recamended spring pressure on your cam, but speedway sells a spring set that binds at 1.100. So they are pretty universal for most setups, as long as your guide clearance is good. And stock installed height on these heads is 1.67.
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
Thanks for the good information Jerry, I always enjoy reading your responses because they're so informative.

I couldn't get the coupon to work HotRod, so I went to HF website and they have them printable there. I don't like that store, but when the situation calls for it, one must go. Now to order some pushrods and rockers, anf get this day going.
 

mtnmankev

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Posts
1,623
Reaction score
3,292
Location
Ash Fork, Arizona
First Name
Kevin
Truck Year
1984, 1983
Truck Model
K10, C20
Engine Size
383 Stroker, 350
The coupon worked for me and I ordered one just now, especially since the local HF store does not stock that item (I went in and looked one day).

It'll be a handy addition to the toolbox.

Thanks for posting about it.
 

DoubleDingo

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Posts
10,502
Reaction score
15,217
Location
Right where I am
First Name
Bagoomba
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
81-C20 Silverado Camper Special-TH400-4.10s
Engine Size
Carb'ed Vortec 350
HotRod,

Thanks for the tip on the #93051 dial indicator from HF. Got it for 26 and some change out the door after the 25% discount and taxes. This tool will come in handy.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,452
Posts
916,373
Members
33,986
Latest member
bigcreek
Top