Head gasket but strange?

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chengny

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That looks like a text book photo of the emulsion that forms in the upper areas of the engine. This is almost always associated with the PCV system not providing adequate scavenging of blow-by gases from the crankcase atmosphere. Along with the formation of this sludge, a malfunctioning PCV system will allow crankcase pressure to rise above atmospheric pressure. When that happens the result is that the sludge that has formed in the upper regions of the engine (think under the valve covers) is forced out through even the smallest gaps. But more more importantly, since the emulsion can form above any oil level, the places it leaks out of are not usually prone to leakage. I am not saying that what you see on the ground under your truck is definitely crankcase emulsion. But it wouldn't hurt to check that your PCV valve is not stuck closed and there is a breather of adequate capacity on the other valve cover.


I wrote this a couple of years (and a lot of beers ) ago when I was much smarter:

An engine (with properly made up joints) would probably not leak oil even if it were simply allowed to vent to atmosphere. But that isn't the primary purpose of a PCV system, and it's not even the secondary purpose.

Even the tightest engines will have some degree of blow-by (i.e. combustion gas leakage past the piston ring/cylinder wall interface). The blow-by gases need to be continuously scavenged from the atmosphere within the crankcase. If these gases - which contain acid and water - are still in the crankcase when the engine is shut off, they will cool down and condense into liquid. This allows them to trickle down and mix with the lube oil.

Given a sufficient number of heat up/cool down cycles, they begin to form a significant percentage of the total engine oil volume. The oil's lubricating properties begin to drop off, the acids in the oil begin to etch into the metal components of the engine and the water forms an emulsion that clings to the surfaces. An emulsion is a mixture of water and oil - it's that white slimy stuff you see inside valve covers.

If this process is allowed to continue, it gets worse. The acid will eventually cause pitting of the surfaces of the steel journals in the bearings. And the emulsified oil gets baked into sludge. The sludge accumulates in the oil passages and begins to restrict flow. The reduced flow, along with the pitting caused by the acid, starts to effect the ability of the bearings to maintain an oil film between the babbit and the rotating steel journal. The babbit begins wear away and the tight original clearances are lost.

Given enough time, the engine will be choked with sludge and bearing clearances will become excessive. This will happen even if you are diligent about changing the engine oil.

The way prevent this all from happening is to continuously remove the blow-by gases. And the most effective method to remove them is by scavenging the crankcase atmosphere with a constant flow of fresh air.

Rather than using an additional device to force the fresh air into the crankcase, the PCV system uses the vacuum created within the intake manifold to draw the blow-by out and into the combustion air stream. This is done via the PCV and it's associated hoses.

An atmospheric vent is necessary in a PCV system as well. It provides a path to allow an unrestricted flow of incoming fresh air. That air replaces the scavenged crankcase gases and prevents more than a slight negative pressure from developing within the crankcase. Scavenging is most effective when done in a diagonal flow. That is why you'll almost always see the valve cover vent on the opposite side and end of the PCV.

The two main benefits from this system are:

1. Harmful blow-by gases are removed from the engine's crankcase and combined with the incoming combustion air. Ultimately they are burned within the combustion chambers.

2. Since the rate that the gases removed by the manifold vacuum are replaced by a flow of fresh air drawn in at the same rate, a natural balance is always maintained. Crankcase pressure is always equal to atmosphere (or at times slightly under),so in theory nothing goes in and nothing goes out.

A third benefit is a slight reduction in emissions - those blow-by gases that would have been released to atmosphere, but were instead burned in the engine.
 
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83chevyk10

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Those would just be oil, but the rear portion of the intake gasket would potentially be your coolant. It’s hard to imagine them mixing so homogenously outside of the engine, though. Are you loosing more oil than a healthy engine would burn over time? Or coolant?
No. Losing hardly any. No burnoff or anything getting inside the cylinders just the leak.
 

83chevyk10

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X2.
Also check out the freeze plugs on the rear of the heads. If they are steel they are prone to rusting out and leaking. If that is the problem replace them with brass freeze plugs.
Don't ask me how I know this. Just my 2 cents.
Again though wouldnt the freeze plugs just be coolant? I may be wrong
 

83chevyk10

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That's looks like a text book photo of the emulsion that forms in the upper areas of the engine. This is almost always associated with the PCV system not providing adequate scavenging of blow-by gases from the crankcase atmosphere. Along with the formation of this sludge, a malfunctioning PCV system will allow crankcase pressure to rise above atmospheric pressure. When that happens the result is that the sludge that has formed in the upper regions of the engine (think under the valve covers) is forced out through even the smallest gaps. But more more importantly, since the emulsion can form above any oil level, the places it leaks out of are not usually prone to leakage. I am not saying that what you see on the ground under your truck is definitely crankcase emulsion. But it wouldn't hurt to check that your PCV valve is not stuck closed and there is a breather of adequate capacity on the other valve cover.


I wrote this a couple of years (and a lot of beers ) ago when I was much smarter:

An engine (with properly made up joints) would probably not leak oil even if it were simply allowed to vent to atmosphere. But that isn't the primary purpose of a PCV system, and it's not even the secondary purpose.

Even the tightest engines will have some degree of blow-by (i.e. combustion gas leakage past the piston ring/cylinder wall interface). The blow-by gases need to be continuously scavenged from the atmosphere within the crankcase. If these gases - which contain acid and water - are still in the crankcase when the engine is shut off, they will cool down and condense into liquid. This allows them to trickle down and mix with the lube oil.

Given a sufficient number of heat up/cool down cycles, they begin to form a significant percentage of the total engine oil volume. The oil's lubricating properties begin to drop off, the acids in the oil begin to etch into the metal components of the engine and the water forms an emulsion that clings to the surfaces. An emulsion is a mixture of water and oil - it's that white slimy stuff you see inside valve covers.

If this process is allowed to continue, it gets worse. The acid will eventually cause pitting of the surfaces of the steel journals in the bearings. And the emulsified oil gets baked into sludge. The sludge accumulates in the oil passages and begins to restrict flow. The reduced flow, along with the pitting caused by the acid, starts to effect the ability of the bearings to maintain an oil film between the babbit and the rotating steel journal. The babbit begins wear away and the tight original clearances are lost.

Given enough time, the engine will be choked with sludge and bearing clearances will become excessive. This will happen even if you are diligent about changing the engine oil.

The way prevent this all from happening is to continuously remove the blow-by gases. And the most effective method to remove them is by scavenging the crankcase atmosphere with a constant flow of fresh air.

Rather than using an additional device to force the fresh air into the crankcase, the PCV system uses the vacuum created within the intake manifold to draw the blow-by out and into the combustion air stream. This is done via the PCV and it's associated hoses.

An atmospheric vent is necessary in a PCV system as well. It provides a path to allow an unrestricted flow of incoming fresh air. That air replaces the scavenged crankcase gases and prevents more than a slight negative pressure from developing within the crankcase. Scavenging is most effective when done in a diagonal flow. That is why you'll almost always see the valve cover vent on the opposite side and end of the PCV.

The two main benefits from this system are:

1. Harmful blow-by gases are removed from the engine's crankcase and combined with the incoming combustion air. Ultimately they are burned within the combustion chambers.

2. Since the rate that the gases removed by the manifold vacuum are replaced by a flow of fresh air drawn in at the same rate, a natural balance is always maintained. Crankcase pressure is always equal to atmosphere (or at times slightly under),so in theory nothing goes in and nothing goes out.

A third benefit is a slight reduction in emissions - those blow-by gases that would have been released to atmosphere, but were instead burned in the engine.
Thats alot to take in lol. Appreciate you taking the time for all that. So basically if that did happen to be the problem, youre saying the gasses arent being exhausted through the pcv, so eventually the gasses condensate and mix with the oil, causing it to look like that? Wouldnt that just cake the inside of the valve covers and intake or at least mix with the rest of the oil? The dip stick is clean like i said. Just dont understand again how my oil can seem clean but its leaking that. Like 87 GMC Jimmy said, its hard to believe they would be mixing fully like that externally. I have PCV but didnt go with a vent on the valve covers didnt think it was really neccesary. If the PCV was clogged wouldnt it want to backfire also?
 
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83chevyk10

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Also, cant seem to find the leak. Took a decent look. Like i said it seems to happen AFTER the engine is cool like overnight. And at that point, it all has ran off. The back of the engine is relatively dry again and if there is anything, its just plain oil not the mixed. Could it be because of expansion/ contraction of a cracked head?
 

1987 GMC Jimmy

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If you want a sure fire way to find a leak, put a little engine oil dye in the oil and/or a little cooling system dye in the radiator. I’ve used both and found like three cooling system leaks at once with that stuff and a little UV flashlight from Walmart. It doesn’t take much so there won’t be oil dilution. Autozone has both types of dye.

This is just general advice. I’m not sold on this issue being a leak that has two parts aggregating that well outside the engine. I can’t say whether it’s transmission fluid because when I’ve seen that, it’s like a pink milkshake with chunks in it. That looks brown, but if the fluid was old, that makes more sense. I think all the theories presented here are reasonable, actually.
 
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gpmorgan

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Looks to me like trans fluid mixed with coolant, water, or just plain condensation on the ground.
I've seen this before and I agree with the condensation on the ground theory, especially this time of the year.
 

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I've seen this before and I agree with the condensation on the ground theory, especially this time of the year.

The crazy temp swings lately is what brought that to mind. I had to squeegee the condensation off my garage floor yesterday and run my heater in an attempt to get everything dried out. Anything metal looked like it sat out in the rain.
 

chengny

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This is just general advice. I’m not sold on this issue being a leak that has two parts aggregating that well outside the engine.

You're right. And that is my point. And that isn't even what emulsified engine oil (provided it actually is coming from the engine) looks like. I left my air cleaner off one night last year and it rained - just a bit. Yet even after running the engine for only like 10 minutes the next day, that tiny bit of rain water that got into the crankcase turned 5 fresh quarts of Rotella T into what looked like a chocolate milk shake.

If that stuff is coming from the engine, it has to be forming up in the top (away from the actively circulating oil) and getting forced out.

Here what to do.

Method 1:

1. Garden hose hooked up to a hot water supply

2. Take 3-4 cans of degreaser and apply to the engine in the general area of the leak

3. Let is soak in and then wash the engine down with the hot water

4. Let the engine dry and sprinkle talcum powder anywhere the leak might be

5. Run the engine and watch for streak to develop in the powder


Method 2:

1. Take your best Shop-Vac - that has a discharge port and hose.

2. Make an adapter to allow the hose to fit to one of the big openings in a valve cover

3. Turn it on and pressurize the crankcase

4. Go around the engine and check for air leakage with soapsuds or Snoop.

I didn't want to say this, but it actually looks like somebody hawked up a big loogie on the driveway.
 

shiftpro

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We can all agree though this is antifreeze mixed with oil though correct? Its not gear oil or anything. I have a 700r4 automatic and its leaking at the back of the motor nowhere near the diff.

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I have vomited stuff that looks just like this.
 

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That looks like valve cover hookie to me and FOR THE RECORD the Bar's Leak cylinder head gasket fixer stuff in a bottle DOES WORK.

(At least it did for me - but I had a cracked head.)

PCV valves are 5 bucks? Breathers are 7 bucks?

I bet your valve cover is leaking because the PCV is non-functional.
Valve cover gaskets are 12 bucks?

Dude. Fix it already!
 

83chevyk10

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That looks like valve cover hookie to me and FOR THE RECORD the Bar's Leak cylinder head gasket fixer stuff in a bottle DOES WORK.

(At least it did for me - but I had a cracked head.)

PCV valves are 5 bucks? Breathers are 7 bucks?

I bet your valve cover is leaking because the PCV is non-functional.
Valve cover gaskets are 12 bucks?

Dude. Fix it already!
Pcv is functioning. Brand new valve covers and gaskets. Not the issue but thanks i been wondering if the bars ever worked for anybody. $44 it damn well better
 

83chevyk10

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I dont know what to make of this. Today there is nothing but plain oil spots under it, no mixed at all. Im just gonna say **** it until/ if ever the problem rears its ugly head. Not losing really any oil or coolant. Not overheating. Not burning anything off. Just gonna have to keep an eye on it
 

83chevyk10

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If you want a sure fire way to find a leak, put a little engine oil dye in the oil and/or a little cooling system dye in the radiator. I’ve used both and found like three cooling system leaks at once with that stuff and a little UV flashlight from Walmart. It doesn’t take much so there won’t be oil dilution. Autozone has both types of dye.

This is just general advice. I’m not sold on this issue being a leak that has two parts aggregating that well outside the engine. I can’t say whether it’s transmission fluid because when I’ve seen that, it’s like a pink milkshake with chunks in it. That looks brown, but if the fluid was old, that makes more sense. I think all the theories presented here are reasonable, actually.
Lol i was actually wondering " why the **** dont they make a dye for leaks" last night. So thats good to hear. I agree, trans mix usually looks like strawberry milk or somethin. Ive thought about the whole condensation thing it kind of makes sense but i just didnt think with as viscous as oil is thag it could mix that well just sitting on the ground. Just gonna go with draining fluids, flushing real well, and try out that dye to track the leak. Thanks guys i got lots to look into and look out for. Will keep updating if anyone is interested.
 
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83chevyk10

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But i can say it is leaking from the engine. Runs down where the fly wheel cover usually is (dont have one on) drops off of the two corners of that, where they run at a downward angle from the engine. I can post a pic of where exactly its dripping down if anybody is so interested in that
 

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