Bumper & Frame Issue

[chengny]

I'm starting to think that there is some distortion in that LH horn. I was looking for evidence of buckling in the upper and lower flanges - that would indicate the the channel had been flexed out of shape. At first I didn't really see anything - until I downloaded the photos and expanded them. Look at the LH flanges where marked - you can see that they are both buckled. In comparison, the flanges on the RH side are smoothly contoured:

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[firebane]

Yes exactly and look closely at the mounts for the sway bar. The one on the right had to take a hammer to so I could get the bolt out.

Same with the spacing between frame and cross member at the edges.

I have been trying to find pictures of this area for a reference to check against mine but that is very difficult.

 

[firebane]

Here is a picture of the front of a 1/2 ton 4x4. Look at the cross member and sway bar mounts and compare it to mine.

There is a big difference

 

[MadOgre]

Ya ok good catch Jerry. I circled in red the area that really shows that something is up.

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But if you notice from those 2 pictures, there seems to be about an 1" difference in the gap between the frame and the rad support. This is what is giving you greif with your bumper not lining up.

the frame being tweaked may be why your suspension seems to be so uneven from side to side.

The point Im making is that even if you got your bumper to line up nice and parallel to the ground it would still severely be crooked compared to your body because of those body bushings! If you replaced the body bushings then the bumper would line up with the body despite the frame being tweaked, but would probably be a little askew in relation to the ground.

Obviously you will never get it straight in realation to both until you get the suspension to even out.

Also I wouldn't doubt that the frame is still parallel to the ground but rather tweaked to the side. This is why I say that the body bushings are why your bumper wont line up to your body. Even if you fixed your frame the bumper would still be crooked to the body!

I don't think that frame horn is bent that much up or down compared to the other side. Maybe im wrong ???

You would have to get a nice flat piece of concrete and then use large jack stands underneath the frame rails to support the truck off the ground and then start measuring from the frame to the ground side to side front to back, in order to see if the frame is tweaked in relation to being parallel to the ground.

 

[MadOgre]

Here is a picture of the front of a 1/2 ton 4x4. Look at the cross member and sway bar mounts and compare it to mine.

There is a big difference

Why don't you swap everything onto this frame?

 

[firebane]

Why don't you swap everything onto this frame?

LOL don't be silly I don't have access to another frame. That was a random picture I found.

And regarding bumper and body yes I'm aware that even if I got the frame issues sorted that would not line up.. I'm aware of that. But I need to start at the first place there is issues.. the frame and figure that out. once I have that figured out I'll deal with the rest.

I plan to order a body bushing next pay day but I need the frame crap figured out first lol.

I think you and I are on the same pages just relating or trying to discuss across a forum is getting wires crossed.

 

[MadOgre]

LOL don't be silly I don't have access to another frame. That was a random picture I found.

And regarding bumper and body yes I'm aware that even if I got the frame issues sorted that would not line up.. I'm aware of that. But I need to start at the first place there is issues.. the frame and figure that out. once I have that figured out I'll deal with the rest.

I plan to order a body bushing next pay day but I need the frame crap figured out first lol.

I think you and I are on the same pages just relating or trying to discuss across a forum is getting wires crossed.

Ya no worries. LOL I don't think that frame is an easy thing to fix!

 

[firebane]

Ya no worries. LOL I don't think that frame is an easy thing to fix!

This is my biggest concern at the moment. I'm really hoping this is an easy fix but looking at how much is tweaked at the front of those horns and that front cross member

 

[Old77]

This is my biggest concern at the moment. I'm really hoping this is an easy fix but looking at how much is tweaked at the front of those horns and that front cross member

Why not take it to a shop and throw it on a frame machine to straighten it back out again?

 

[firebane]

Why not take it to a shop and throw it on a frame machine to straighten it back out again?

Well that is going to be something I look at as well. Problem is a lot of shops around me simply don't deal with these old vehicles anymore cause its not worth their time.

And even if it did get put onto a frame machine I don't think the front frame horn would even be the same again.

 

[Old77]

Yeah, I can see how it'd depend on your area and what you have access to. I'd assume Calgary is a pretty major city, though, right? I'd bet there's some shop around there specializes in older vehicles or even full on customs that'd have a machine and could make things right again. Like you've said, it's just a tweak and not even a bad bend. Just may take some googling your area or asking around of people who you'd know would have probably know someone

 

[chengny]

I've been holding my tongue on this one but here it goes (BTW Curtis, I think you're a good skate - so please don't think I'm being a ********):

1. If the only problem with your frame is that one rail horn is slightly higher than the other - and the distortion is limited to the area forward of the axle/springs...I would suggest you get over it. Life's too short to sweat the small stuff and in the end it's all small stuff.

2. I can surely understand that you feel the bumper being at an angle to the rest of the front end would make the truck look goofy - and should be dealt with. But couldn't you simply elongate the bolt hole on the LH side. That would allow you position it so it that it at least looks good - I mean, how many accidents do you anticipate being involved in?

 

[firebane]

I've been holding my tongue on this one but here is goes (BTW Curtis, I think you're a good skate - so please don't think I'm being a ********):

1. If the only problem with your frame is that one rail horn is slightly higher than the other - and the distortion is limited to the area forward of the axle/springs...I would suggest you get over it. Life's too short to sweat the small stuff and in the end it's all small stuff.

2. I can surely understand that you feel the bumper being at an angle to the rest of the front end would make the truck look goofy - and should be dealt with. But couldn't you simply elongate the bolt hole on the LH side. That would allow you position it so it that it at least looks good - I mean, how many accidents do you anticipate being involved in?

Its all good and no offense taken.

#1 - The problem is though if I took measurements on a flat surface where the front springs are bolted one side is higher than the other and to me this would mean that I would have steering/suspension issues. I already am trying to figure out why when I turn to the left sharply it feels like the truck is lifting up and down on one side.

I have replaced EVERY thing in the front end from balljoints to ujoints hoping this would fix it and nothing did so I wondering if perhaps this is the reason.

#2 - Absolutely agree and if there were no other frame issues I would agree but this goes back to my point #1. Would not having one spring being lower or higher than the other cause steering/suspension issues?

You have to remember these springs are mounted to the rails and are being affected by this difference. If this was just a hole issue then yes I agree... enlarge the hole and mount the bumper.

Maybe I'll grab a come a long and tie that bitch to a telephone and pull up the right side lol.

 

[MadOgre]

And a lot of so called frame repairs actually just wreck your frame beyond repair! So many ding dongs taking your money when they have no idea what their doing!

 

[firebane]

We'll know in a few hours as I'm off soon and be able to go home and do some measuring.