Power window separated relay

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fallguy

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On a FB page I was seeing allot of chatter about adding a separate relay for each window switch, thereby increasing the overall function of the I does and it operates very fast and smooth like a modern day vehicle......this particular chat was about a suburban but.....

Anyone know anything about this???
 

robert8096

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chengny

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If your windows are moving slower than you think they were designed to move - and you want to speed them up - modifying the power supply may not help at all. It may be a simple mechanical issue (e.g. binding in the runs, loose misaligned drive parts, wobbly rollers, etc.).

You might consider inspecting/repairing those areas before doing that modification.


The reality is; as originally designed, these windows do not raise/lower that fast - even when brand new.

What this modification is primarily about is; bypassing the normal power supply to the regulator motor. The OEM power supply is eliminated and a new (more direct from the battery) source of power is run to the regulator motor.

The normal OEM power feeds (along with the associated control wiring) run through the factory PW/PL harness. The harness is long and convoluted. And the biggest factor - the power feeds are run through the door switches. These are the main reasons for the voltage drop from the fuse block to the motors. And, the voltage drop is what this modification is designed to reduce. Wire gauge, as supplied from GM, is sufficient and is not a factor.

The modified power feeds are run directly from the fuse block to a pair of relays that are mounted in each door. After exiting the relay, the power is supplied straight to the motor on a short length of wire. The power feeds (after the modification is done) are no longer run through the door switches.

The switches are only used to operate the control side of the relay.

So, if you think that your windows are slow due to excessive voltage drop in the power feed wiring (as provided by the factory wiring), then this modification may certainly help speed them up. But don't expect a miraculous change. Read the following if you are interested:


Not too long ago, I stripped a complete PW/PL harness from a parts truck. I had it laid out on the cellar floor for testing and inspection. The regulator motors (with nothing attached to them) were plugged in and laying on the floor. I had the system hooked up to an unrestricted 12VDC power supply. The power was supplied by one of those portable jump-start packs. Using the normal door mounted switches, I ran the regulators in both directions a few times to confirm proper operation. Everything looked good worked as expected.

I was just about to unhook the power supply - and put the harness/regulators away for future use - when I had a thought about the modification you are asking about. I wondered how much faster the regulators would stroke up and down if they were wired directly to the jump-starter. I made up a temporary pigtail only about 1 foot long with big clips to connect to the leads on the power pack. Since there were no switches in the circuit and the power pack didn't have an on/off switch, it was a manual operation. I had to attach the clips to power the motor one way- and reverse the polarity to power it the other.

Results:

Even with the regulators completely stripped of any mechanical load, and the motors supplied with basically an unlimited power source - there was only a minimal reduction in the time required to complete a full stroke.

They did not move much faster than if they were installed in the truck, hooked up to the factory harness and pushing a window sash up the channels.

This has been a long reply but my point is this:

The modification you are thinking about will not cause your windows to shoot up wicked fast - like you might expect with a modern high-end vehicle.

The actual times were something like:

Installed in the truck, with a window attached and wired as factory - 5/6 seconds

With no external mechanical load and an unlimited power supply - 4/5 seconds
 

MadOgre

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I think sometimes why guys notice a huge difference is because :


A: the windows are taking 10-15 sec


B: the reason is, the wiring harness is cracked and frayed and corroded where they move every time the door is opened and closed at the door hinge, causing great reductions in the supplied power to the regulators. Thus when a NEW power wire is installed the power gain and window speed is DRAMATICLY improved.
 

chengny

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the reason is, the wiring harness is cracked and frayed and corroded where they move every time the door is opened and closed at the door hinge,

Exactly!

In my experience this is the weak spot in the harness. Twice - on two different trucks - I had a complete PW failure. Both times, after ringing it out, the cause was ultimately found to be a break in a power feed leg somewhere in the area of the hinge opening.

It was hard to tell exactly where the cut in the wire actually occurred (in relation to the body/door). But a few rough measurements seemed to indicate that it actually happens either in the rubber flex conduit or the door jamb/flex hose flange interface (on the body side):

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This was the first time I had ever dealt with the PW/PL harness on these trucks - maybe 12 years ago. By the time I got to the point in the job where a detailed failure analysis could have been conducted - I had a bad attitude to say the least (see below). It was like: "Jerry, never mind why it happened, just put the GD thing back together and hope you never have to do it again!"



The repair - the way I did it the first time anyway - is an absolute pain in the ass. This is because - if you want to retain the original wiring - the common harness connector under the dash has to be disconnected and the entire wiring group has to be pulled out through the opening in the body, through the rubber boot, through the opening in the door and finally out of the door cavity.

To make matters worse, I had PW & PL locks and the break was at the drivers door both...so the wiring group was as big as it gets. Because of the two master switches in the drivers door, the wire bundle to that side is basically double the size of what goes to the RH door.

The connector ends kept hanging up in the rubber boot, so that needed to be released by hack-sawing through the flange rivets. Of course at reassembly, the flanges had to be re-riveted.

Only when the entire harness is pulled and hanging out of the door - is it then possible to strip and splice the broken section.

While the actual splice is done in a minute or two, the harness pull (in and out) takes about 6 hours and slices the **** out of your hands and fingers.

So the repair is done. Now it's time to fish the harness back through everything and into the cab. Fugget about it!

If I thought pulling the harness out was an ordeal - pushing it back in made that look like a day at the friggin' beach!

Now when I pull that harness, the first thing that happens is the door is released from the hinges, the rivets for the conduit flanges are drilled out and the door is hung from a chainfall. Only then do I start to pull wires.
 
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MadOgre

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LOL ya its PITA been there done that LOL
 

MadOgre

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looks decent but holy crap could it be any more expensive ?

Im not sure if you run a new power feed with his setup or if your stealing power somehow. It doesn't really say anything about new power feeds.
 

robert8096

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Im not sure if you run a new power feed with his setup or if your stealing power somehow. It doesn't really say anything about new power feeds.

You can do it either way. In his instructions you tap off the pink power wire at the door switch. This way you are not having to run any extra wire. The goal here is to not pull the volts/amps thru the switch for window motors.

I did a complete re-wire of my 74 so I pulled the wires for this at that time. You just connect to those instead of taping off the pink wire.

Like mentioned above this in NOT a fix for bad window regulators, binding, bad wiring or weak power motors. The better the working order of those components the faster the windows will be but don't expect results like the newer trucks.
 

robert8096

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That works and it's cheaper than the kit but would be hell on the passenger side without a passenger. :)
 

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Nah that's what duct tape was invented for lol
 

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