Suburban with front and rear A/C

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72chevy2door

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I have a 88 gmc 1500 suburban with front and rear A/C and it also has the smaller (pancake) style compressor. It is currently R-12 freon but whenever I get the cash up it will be converted to R-134 freon. The system doesn't work right now and not sure what's wrong with it. It might not have any freon left or it could have suffered the Black Death. But I'm just looking for if anyone can tell me what I need to replace when I convert over to the R-134 if my system checks out good. And how much freon I will need. I was told I should use PAG oil in the system but no clue on to which one to use and how much to use in what places. Go to a parts store and no one has a clue, not even their computer. So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
 

bucket

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Opinions vary and I'm not going to get into that part of it, but the fact is that if everything is in working order you can simply change the fittings, evacuate the system, charge the system with 134a (slightly lesser amount) and it will work well for years to come.

Likely the compressor is seized or there's no charge in the system (or both). If it's not seized then it's worth the time leak testing it and putting a charge in it, but it may be a good idea to change the orifice tube before charging it.
 

chengny

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If the system has not suffered any catastrophic failure (like you say, maybe it just lost it's charge), you can easily convert from R-12 to 134a. Here is a complete list of the components that need to be changed:

The service port valves

Here are the components that should be changed (just as preventive maintenance while the system is open):

The filter/drier and the expansion tube.

Using compressed air - blow as much of the R-12 oil out as you can. Put 134a adapters on the service port Schraeder valves, install the new filter/drier and expansion tube. Add 6 oz of PAG oil. Close up and evacuate the system. If it holds a vacuum, recharge with (4 cans I think) of 134a.

Done.
 

72chevy2door

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I won't be doing this any time soon as cash is the killer part of this. I found out it holds 94 ounces of freon (ouch on the wallet) but the PAG oil has several different kinds. Which one would be the better one to use? I seen on another forum someone said 11oz of PAG oil. Is it bad to have too much or not enough? A/C work is not my thing but I want to learn and would love to see how well it works in a suburban with dual air systems. I will replace the drier and expansion valve orifice tube and anything else that's recommended to be changed. Should I do a flush on the system? When I was in the parts store I seen a A/C flush not sure what it does or if it's worth it. I just don't want to waste money on something that I shouldn't replace like the condenser and stuff
 

chengny

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A/C system flush (as it is sold in the auto parts stores) is a waste of money. I tried it before - seems like some kind of Citrikleen. Hardly dissolved the old oil.

The only effective flush is R-11 - and that is not readily available.

In the absence of R-11, just use a clean highly volatile solvent (acetone, MEK, etc). Inject some into the heat exchanged to be flushed and, while it is still liquid, blast it out with compressed air. It is most effective to flush opposite to the direction of normal flow.


I apologize for not reading your post carefully.

The quantities of refrigerant and refrigerant oil that I recommended were for a standard pick-up truck. Your dual system takes 84 ounces of refrigerant (7 - 12 oz cans) and 9 ounces of oil. Use PAG 100 oil.

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When you add the oil for the first time, split the total charge up between the different components. Something like this:

Compressor - 1 ounce

Evaporators - 3 oz each

Condenser - 2 ounces


GM TSB on the R-12 to 134a conversion process:


A/C - Retrofitting R-12 Vehicles to R-134A


Group Ref.: HVAC

Bulletin No.: 331226

Date: January, 1994

INFORMATION

SUBJECT:
RETROFITTING R-12 VEHICLES TO R-134a

MODELS:
1994 AND PRIOR YEARS, PASSENGER CARS AND TRUCKS WITH R-12 A/C SYSTEMS

There has been a great deal of information presented by the media regarding the need to retrofit vehicles produced with R-12, to a substitute refrigerant. This bulletin will outline GM's position and future plans on this subject.

Most important, there is currently NO requirement to retrofit any R-12 vehicle. Vehicles built with R-12 can be serviced with R-12, as long as the refrigerant is available. At some point in time, R-12 may become either too scarce or too expensive to economically justify service on some vehicles with R-12. By that time, GM will provide you with instructions on retrofitting those vehicles from R-12 to R-134a.

GM vehicle divisions, platforms, and component suppliers have been actively working on the details of retrofitting R-12 vehicles. An enormous amount of work is required to determine how hundreds of vehicle models can be satisfactorily retrofitted. Additional information will be provided as it becomes available.

The following items contain important technical information that should answer many of the questions, and correct some misconceptions reported in the media.

SUBSTITUTE REFRIGERANTS

R-134a is the only approved substitute refrigerant that GM recommends and it should only be used if a complete retrofit procedure has been performed. None of the other refrigerants currently being marketed as replacement or drop-in substitutes for R-12 are approved for use in GM vehicles.

R-12 and R-134a are not interchangeable. R-134a cannot be added to fill a low R-12 system. The combination of the two materials can cause high system pressures, which could cause damage to the system.

Retrofitting an R-12 vehicle to R-134a requires careful preparation to insure that neither the vehicle nor the A/C service equipment has become contaminated.

RESIDUAL MINERAL OIL

The concern that mineral oil is chemically incompatible with R-134a and/or PAG lubricant has been proven to be untrue. A normal charge of mineral oil left in the A/C system after a retrofit to R-134a will not damage the system. Mineral oil, however, does not mix well with R-134a, and will not provide adequate lubrication. Tests on both the orifice tube and TXV systems show that the mineral oil parks in places such as the accumulator, and does not appreciably affect performance or damage the system. The retrofit service bulletin will specify the correct oil to be used. It is important that this oil recommendation be followed carefully.

RESIDUAL R-12

Residual R-12 left in a system, due to improper retrofit service procedures, may result in system damage unless the residual R-12 is kept below the 2 percent limit specified by the Society of Automotive Engineers' Specification J-1661. New service methods are being developed to minimize the level of R-12 remaining in the A/C system after the retrofit procedure is completed. Following these new procedures will be critical to insure that the above limits are met.

SYSTEM FLUSHING

R-11, a material commonly used as an A/C system flushing solvent, has been found to be chemically incompatible with PAG lubricant. Technicians should be aware that residual R-11 remaining in an R-12 system will be very damaging if the vehicle is retrofitted to R-134a later in its life. For many years GM has recommended the use of in-line filters as an alternative to system flushing.

SYSTEM FLUSHING, USING EITHER R-11 OR ANY OTHER FLUSHING MATERIAL, IS NOT APPROVED BY GM FOR ANY A/C SYSTEM.

DESICCANT PROTECTION

It has been reported that the desiccant (moisture absorption material) used in 1992 and older R-12 A/C systems is incompatible with R-134a and PAG oil. The older desiccant was designed specifically for R-12 systems, but testing has shown that it is NOT necessary to replace the older desiccant just because the vehicle is being retrofitted to R-134a. 1993 and newer GM vehicles use desiccant designed to be compatible with both R-12 and R-134a systems.

The amount of desiccant used in most GM vehicles is designed to last for at least seven years. To help maintain adequate protection for vehicles that must be retrofitted, it is recommended that the accumulator/dryer, which contains the desiccant, be replaced if the vehicle is more than five years old.

"O" RINGS

While continuing to service with R-12, be sure to use "O" rings and seal materials which are compatible with R-134a and PAG oil. This practice will eliminate concern in case the vehicle requires retrofitting later in its life. All "O" rings and seal materials available from GMSPO are compatible with R-134a systems.

RETROFITTED SYSTEM PERFORMANCE

Currently, it appears that for most GM vehicles, the retrofit procedure will require minimal changes to the existing system. Some vehicles may need additional parts and/or procedures to provide acceptable performance and/or durability. Our testing has shown that vehicles that have undergone recommended retrofit procedures will, in most climatic conditions, be minimally affected in terms of A/C performance.

SERVICE POLICY

Basic service policy is as follows:

During Warranty - If an R-12 produced vehicle A/C system must be repaired or recharged under warranty, repairs will be completed using R-12. If R-12 is unavailable or unaffordable, GM will notify the dealer body and will pay for the warranty repair and the retrofit to R-134a.

NOTE: It a customer requests that an in-warranty vehicle be converted to R-134a, and the R-12 system is functioning properly, the customer will be expected to pay for the retrofit.

Out of Warranty - The cost of the conversion will be the responsibility of the customer.
 

72chevy2door

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1500 Sierra Classic suburban
Engine Size
350
Thank you so much! I will refer back to this when I get up the cash to do it. Stuff is so dang expensive. Lol
 

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