New speedo reads really slow

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flyboy1100

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I got a entire cluster from a 89 diesel burb. I swapped my gas fuel gauge and put it in. I changed to an 18/42t combo for the speedo drive on the tcase. Original combo was 18/44t. Currently reads like 15% slow as compared to gps. Smaller gear should read faster right?

Tires are 29.6" diameter
 

flyboy1100

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Best bet would be to use a calculator because its more than just gears.. Tire size, gear ratio etc all play a role.

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/speedometer-gear-calculator/
That's what i used.
29.6 tires, 3.42 gearing. Came out to 41.something. Either the calc is way off or my new speedo doesn't work correctly.

Old speedo w/ 18/44t combo indicated maybe 5% faster than actual which is why in i'm confused that the smaller driven gear is so much slower than actual. Shouldn't it be spinning faster because it is slower?

Also, what is the zero point of the speedometer, maybe when i put the needle back on i put it in the wrong spot which is maybe why it reads slow?
 
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flyboy1100

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did some testing tonight, didn't do too much because I was still trying to break in new gears.

44T started about 6mph slow and by 65mph indicated, it was 12mph slow
42T started 4mph slow and by 70 was 10mph slow.

weird thing was the error was worse when speeding up, but slowing down it was maybe 50% of the error, still slower than actual speed

odometer seemed to be pretty close to what the gps showed 42T was indicating 13.74 miles traveled, but odo in dash showed just shy of 14.0 (13.95 if i had to guess inbetween numbers)
 

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Its good though cause now you don't have to worry about speeding! You can do the speed limit and still be passing people lol
 

flyboy1100

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I think the magnet/clutch mechanism in my new speedo is either sticky from all the years in a junk yard open to the elements or just plain worn out. going to put my old one back in this morning. i hope i can do it w/o pulling the entire cluster again.
 

flyboy1100

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i kinda regret not getting an electronic cluster and the 241c w/ vss output.

does that speed sensor plug into an adapter, or is the intermediate housing drilled/tapped for it to screw into?
 

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Its a completely different rear bearing retainer that accepts the VSS
 

flyboy1100

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figures.

got the speedo accurate to about 25mph by swapping the drive portion from my other one to the newer face/odometer. after that it starts to to indicate faster than actual. and by 65 it is 10mph faster than actual. the newer drive section seems to have a bit more drag in it, but the odometer is running about 1% faster than gps tracked, so that i'm AOK with. so it is definitely something in magnet/needle.

going to swap the needle portion too, and if that doesn't fix it, i'm not sure what to do.

so close, yet so far away :(
 

chengny

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but the odometer is running about 1% faster than gps tracked,

That's acceptable - excellent really - for the cable input speed. If your needle was tracking correctly you would be well under the maximum error allowed by law:

Federal standards in the United States allow a maximum 5 mph error (plus-or-minus) at a speed of 50 mph on speedometer readings for commercial vehicles (CFR-393.82). Aftermarket modifications, such as different tire and wheel sizes or different differential gearing, can cause speedometer inaccuracy. Private passenger vehicles generally adhere to the international standard of never reading below the actual speed of the vehicle but the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed. So the accuracy is always subject to many variables.

And because it is accurate up to 25 mph (and then it begins to read high), it would appear that the only problem is in the "gain". Gain is when an instrument loses accuracy as it reading increases. In the case of a mechanical speedometer, the deflection of the pointer is controlled by a light spring that is attached to the speed cup output shaft. You might want to read this thread:

http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11265&highlight=speedometer


It may be possible to tighten up the spring a bit and thus increase the resistance to needle deflection for a given speed (and ultimately lower the displayed MPH).


Oh, and BTW, I checked a couple of speedometers to see where the needle rests without any input RPM:

The position is best described in terms of the short end (rather than the indicating end). If you extended the short end of the needle straight out, it would line up almost exactly with the 60 MPH mark (on an 85 MPH speedometer). Like this:

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flyboy1100

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So how do i fix the hair spring? I only have 1 as i broke the other a few weeks ago when i was putting it back together.

Odometer is off a bit more then 1%, i will track my entire 41 mile commute tonight to see how much, i may end up with my 44t gear again Even though theoretically it is incorrect for my tires/gears.
At speeds greater than 55, pretty much i am 10mph slower than indicated.

Oh, and there is a zero dot as far as i can tell, so i just put the needle there :)
 

flyboy1100

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odometer is 1.5% fast (1.479 if you want to be really technical LOL) so again, i am pretty pleased with that. does makes me wonder what a 43T gear would do, but i think it would probably just make it swing the other direction.

going to try and put a little more tension on spring tonight. maybe i can get the speed correct, or at least close
 

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This is the Neanderthal method of gauge calibration, but it is worth a try:

Just make a mental note of where the needle sits when at rest. Then take your finger tip and force it past it's zero point, in the opposite to the direction of the error - in your case that would be CCW. Try forcing it maybe an inch below zero (told you it was crude) and let it go.

Take a test drive and see if it tracks more accurately. You won't notice the difference at low speeds - take it up to 65 -70 MPH and compare the reading with your GPS. If it helped, try pushing it another inch counter clockwise until you get a fairly close reading as compared to the GPS.

Be aware, the dampening force of the spring is not linear. It offers very little resistance to the rotation of the output shaft at lower speeds. It should come to rest a little bit lower than before you twisted it backwards but it will not exhibit that degree of "depression" across the entire scale.

So, you should not see a big change at low speeds. But then, as the shaft/needle begins to move up the scale, the spring begins to offer greater opposing force. The higher the needle climbs, the more the spring tends to limit the motion.

With any luck you will have reset the spring to a tension that will hold the needle around the 65 MPH mark when you are actually going that speed.


When all else fails, just pull the needle off and set it back on the shaft the amount CCW that corresponds to your 10 MPH error. You won't show any speed until you hit 10 MPH but you will be accurate at highway speeds.
 
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flyboy1100

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I tried that but not to that extreme. Maybe will try again tomorrow.

Also ordered a 43t gear, technically i need a 42, but if that is off by +1.5%, going to 43(which i think i should have had instead of 44 anyway) should put me at -0.9% error.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

flyboy1100

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going to wait until the 43t gear shows up before any more tweaks, but as it sits right now after testing 4 times with shortening the hair spring (at first just bending, the last time i just cut it off) I ended up removing about 1/2" and right now it consistently indicates 2mph fast throughout the entire range. so by my math the 43t should lower the indication about that much and I should be good.
 

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