Th400 Governor

[Rustisbest]

Anyone in readerland mess with their governor to get the light throttle shift points later? Mine is shifting at 8 mph and around 18 into high gear.
I've tried adjusting the modulator and grinding the outer weights but it hasn't helped as much as I wanted. Will grinding the inner weights and going to lighter springs affect the light throttle shift points?
Had the same issue but worse with the TH350 before I swapped in the 400.

FTI 9.5" 3000 converter
3.89 gears

Looking for what somebody has actually done with a similar setup, car or truck, not Googled answers.
Thanks

 

[Beast496]

Yes, you kind of need to know where you're going with it though. Changing to different springs will only give you small, subtle changes. Changing weights or grinding off inner material, will yield bigger changes. lighter equals later shifts. heavier equals earlier shifts. Sounds like you need to play around with the inner weights a bit more.

 

[Matt69olds]

Get a couple spare govonors and the govonor tuning kit. They should be easy and cheap to find.

Install one, then the other, and carefully document the shift points. If you’re happy, great! If not, prepare yourself for lots of trial and error.

Read the instructions on the govonor calibration kit, make ONE change at a time and take detailed notes. Drive the car, and take more notes as to what exactly changed.

There are dozens of different weights and springs, and probably thousands of different combinations. The odds of hitting the ideal shift point on the first try is pretty slim. The reason I suggest getting a spare govonor, it’s easy to get the shift points all screwed up. It’s best to have an unmodified part to go back to if you get to far out.

The modulator will at most move shift points 2-4 mph.

 

[Rustisbest]

I think my main issue is the small diameter converter doesn't load the engine like a stocker so vacuum stays high accelerating even though it drives "tight".

I've got 3 extra sets of inner/outer weights but it looks like I'm gonna need to change the springs to make any real difference.
This last change I ground off almost 2 grams on an inner weight with no change in shift points on the side with the heavier spring. Doesn't seem like a lot but they're only 10-11 grams to start with.

Kind of ridiculous they want $60 or more for what's in those kits. Pay to play I guess though lol.

 

[Matt69olds]

Keep in mind, while the weight is important, WHERE the weight is in relation to the pivot is more important.

The rule of thumb: use the weights to get the shift points close, change the springs to fine tune.

Read this:

Turbo 400 Governor adjustment

Years ago the GS Xtra had some steps to trim your governor on the Turbo 400 to raise your shift points, anyone recall what year this was? I have all...

www.v8buick.com

And this:

https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads/th400-governer-help-needed.2658354/

 

[Rustisbest]

Yes sir I've read both of those and tons of other threads on Google about this. I understand that removing nose weight is more effective than just a lighter weight because of centrifugal force. Most say the outers control the low speed, the inners are WOT, and the springs are for spreading them apart. Light throttle is all I'm concerned with-I can just manually shift it at WOT.

So I've tried running the modulator screw in a couple turns and grinding the outers to somewhat mimic the "IROC/Corvette/skeleton" governor along with one lighter inner weight on the side with the light spring. Stock ones were 41ish grams and I got these to 32.5. The inner went from 10.9 to 9.6.

You must be registered for see images attach

That only got me a few mph but definitely not terrible.

From there I ground the inner on the heavy side from 10.8 to 9.0 like the "B" weight from the Buick website =No change. So my next change before I buy the governor kit is gonna be a lighter weight (7.8 grams) on the light spring side with the one on the right end. Stockers are far left.

You must be registered for see images attach

And a pic of what I've done so far. I may not have taken a big enough swing at it yet to make a difference? I can't take much more weight off the outers with a grinder without screwing them up.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[adumars]

Have you adjusted the vacuum switch on your throttle? That will alter shift points as well.

 

[Beast496]

Have you adjusted the vacuum switch on your throttle? That will alter shift points as well.

??? Do you mean the modulator on the transmission? TH400 doesnt have a throttle valve cable like a 700R4 if thats what you're thinking.

 

[Tyger13us]

Matt69olds and Hot Rod know there ****. they both help me build a bad ass th350.​

i used ALL the tricks they told me to do... works perfect,
shifts easy up and down with light throttle, hold it to the wood and shifts HARD, break stuff hard.
it will down shift to 2nd under 70mph.

like what matt said it takes time to get it to shift the way you want.
I changed springs to the b@m yellow ones,, and it would down shift from 3rd to 1st gear wooded as long as i was going under 45mph..
way to much umpf, i wanted 3rd to second under 45, not tach the motor out.
i can manual shift to first ANYTIME i want,, but ya gotta be careful with that.
dont want to scatter a motor.

 

[Rustisbest]

Matt69olds and Hot Rod know there ****. they both help me build a bad ass th350.​

i used ALL the tricks they told me to do... works perfect,
shifts easy up and down with light throttle, hold it to the wood and shifts HARD, break stuff hard.
it will down shift to 2nd under 70mph.

like what matt said it takes time to get it to shift the way you want.
I changed springs to the b@m yellow ones,, and it would down shift from 3rd to 1st gear wooded as long as i was going under 45mph..
way to much umpf, i wanted 3rd to second under 45, not tach the motor out.
i can manual shift to first ANYTIME i want,, but ya gotta be careful with that.
dont want to scatter a motor.

What converter are you running? That seems to be the hangup. Im concerned with light throttle only

Same issue i had with the TH350, same issue my buddy has with his TH350 and higher stall converter.

No kickdown.

No one Ive talked to owns a 3800-4000 lb car/truck with 3.73-4.10 gears and a somewhat high stall converter that can get me in the ballpark on it. I'm just gonna have to figure it out by pulling the governor 100 times. At least it bolts in and is not a press fit like the 350/700r4

 

[Rustisbest]

I read in one of the governor kits instruction that removing a weight/spring completely on 1 side is an option.
So I pulled them off of the side with the light spring and.........perfect. Bumps into 2nd at 15ish and drive at 25.

At WOT it's a few hundred RPM short in drive. Good enough for me right now.

This combo wound up being the outer weights at 32.5, 1 inner at 9.0 grams and the factory heavy spring.

 

[Matt69olds]

Do you have the electric kickdown functioning? That will easily add at least a few hundred rpm to the WOT shift points, with zero change to part throttle.

If it’s not working, fix that before doing anything else.

 

[Rustisbest]

NO KICKDOWN

Went from a T350 that ate the front planetary to this. Guy that built it quoted me the same price to build either and I needed a new driveshaft anyways so it was a no brainer.

What are the advantages of having the kickdown working vs just taking a little bit more off the weight for WOT?

Im tired of working on this thing.
Been down since March and just gonna cruise it as is for a while or at least until this Fall

 

[Matt69olds]

There is a valve in the valve body called the detent regulator. Without getting too technical, when the solenoid is activated, it changes the shift points. For it to do that, the valve body needs to know the difference between WOT, and heavy throttle. As far as the vacuum modulator is concerned, low vacuum could be caused by either. The kickdown cable (TH350) or kickdown solenoid (TH400) is used to tell the difference. Without the kickdown solenoid, the trans will always tend to short shift at WOT.

As far as I know, every square body has the mounting provision for the electric kickdown switch on the throttle pedal bracket. Considering what you have already been thru chasing govenor weights and springs, mounting the switch and running a couple wires will be a walk in the park by comparison. It will definitely be cleaner!!

 

[adumars]

??? Do you mean the modulator on the transmission? TH400 doesnt have a throttle valve cable like a 700R4 if thats what you're thinking.

I've got a TH400 on a 6.2 diesel. There's a Throttle position switch mounted to the throttle lever with vacuum lines running to it. The throttle position sends a vacuum signal to the transmission to shift at a certain load. Mine was bad and causing the transmission to shift too late. Adjusting it will change the shift point.